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techlaw2025

142 on my first LSAT, should I pull my application?

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34 minutes ago, Liavas said:

Hot up here - Imgflip

In all seriousness, you can probably improve with more study. But why did you risk applying without a score already in hand and with a January testing? I'm assuming you must have been doing PTs and gotten a rough idea of your potential score...? Some people do worse on the actual thing than in practice, but you chose UofT, Oz, and UBC, so you must have had confidence in something. Did you decide to apply last minute? 

 

35 minutes ago, Liavas said:

Hot up here - Imgflip

In all seriousness, you can probably improve with more study. But why did you risk applying without a score already in hand and with a January testing? I'm assuming you must have been doing PTs and gotten a rough idea of your potential score...? Some people do worse on the actual thing than in practice, but you chose UofT, Oz, and UBC, so you must have had confidence in something. Did you decide to apply last minute? 

Pressure, and I didn't know what I was doing. I don't have much family here, so not much guidance through the process. I studied passively up until December - that's when I studied everyday. I never had a solid strategy when approaching this exam. As well, I didn't even complete the exam lol, smh. 

YES, I did apply late (last week of October)...AND I was PASSIVELY studying.I made the decision to apply for Law School in August last year (bad move). Either way, I'm glad I went through the process because I know what to expect now, and can apply for scholarships etc for Fall 2022.

Overall, the whole process of writing my first LSAT was stressful; I moved back home and my relationship was falling apart. I know I wasn't focused as I should've been. However, life has improved a lot and I'm very blessed I can take another shot at this with the right resources while being in the right mental space.

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17 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

If you aren't trolling, then you are straight up delusional. Aiming for a 175+ and then getting a 142 should have been a wakeup call for you.

Right ok... lol the people who are getting 170+ btw aren't just "STUDYING" either...they are reading background books to supplement their understanding of the nature of the test.

Why are you referencing 175+? ... I never mentioned that as a goal of mine. :S

Edited by techlaw2025

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2 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

Right ok... lol the people who are getting 170+ btw aren't just "STUDYING" either...they are reading background books to supplement their understanding of the nature of the test.

I received a 173 on my first and only official write and I have no idea what you're talking about. I received a 167 on a blind diagnostic, knowing nothing about the test and having done no prep.

But go on and tell me what needs to be done to get a 170+. It couldn't be that a degree of innate ability has anything to do with it.

Why are you referencing 175+? ... I never mentioned that as a goal of mine. :S

I literally embedded a link to a post where back in October you wrote "I want to achieve a 175+ on my LSAT."

Edited by CleanHands
He added something for me to address
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21 minutes ago, etudiante1 said:

I'm curious, where did this joke about rowing come from? 

 

I would caution about over confidence on the LSAT. It is very difficult to score over 170. Before taking the LSAT have you done multiple PTs that might have indicated that you would score around the 18th percentile? 

No I haven't. Thank you, I've changed my approach to this exam and I'm confident I can improve with my new study schedule and guidance of my mentor.  Everything before was a mess.

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1 minute ago, CleanHands said:

I received a 173 on my first and only official write and I have no idea what you're talking about. I received a 167 on a blind diagnostic, knowing nothing about the test and having done no prep.

But go on and tell me what needs to be done to get a 170+. It couldn't be that a degree of innate ability has anything to do with it.

Congratulations ❤️  anyways, I'm not here to argue with an anon. 

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9 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

Pressure, and I didn't know what I was doing.

It's not statistically likely that people improve but it is possible. I was able to but it took a long time and I never broke 170. I think what's important at this point is not to apply again until you get your desired score on paper. If you're planning on taking the August test that gives you time to make sure you can confirm you can do it before filling out apps. One mistake I made was that I thought the pressure of the test would actually help me get an increased score, like the adrenaline would help my focus and concentration. In reality I ended up scoring exactly where I was averaging in my PT's, and that's probably right around where you'll score. Is it absolutely necessary for you to go to stats heavy schools like U of T? Sorry if you mentioned this already, but do you have a stellar GPA as well? You can get in (even to U of T I think) without a 170. My advice is to give yourself smaller milestones instead of one big one. 

Edited by legallybrunette3
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31 minutes ago, almostnot said:

This commentary might be interesting to people.  The average gain from rewriting was 2.8 points: https://www.lsac.org/data-research/research/performance-repeat-test-takers-law-school-admission-test-2006-2007-through

LSAC used to make the repeater data public, but I couldn't seem to find it online for recent years.  I did find this old link that might also be interesting to the OP: http://prelaw.umass.edu/uploads/documents/RepeaterData-1.pdf

In 2010-11, there was one person who scored 150 or less and was able to rewrite at a 170+ level.  This was out of a total pool of 25k rewriters. 

Thank you for this, by the way.

There is a popular narrative on this site that the LSAT is completely learnable and anyone can achieve any score with enough practice. And that has always clearly (IMO) been bullshit but I never bothered to look into obtaining any empirical evidence of this (because it just seems so innately obvious, but try telling that to someone who scores 140 and is convinced they just need to study a bit more).

I and others should start linking to this post of yours when this gets repeated by people intending to make 20 point increases (which is an everyday occurrence on this forum).

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6 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

I received a 173 on my first and only official write and I have no idea what you're talking about. I received a 167 on a blind diagnostic, knowing nothing about the test and having done no prep.

But go on and tell me what needs to be done to get a 170+. It couldn't be that a degree of innate ability has anything to do with it.

 

 

I literally embedded a link to a post where back in October you wrote "I want to achieve a 175+ on my LSAT."

For what reason? I asked for advice on THIS post, lol. Just keep it simple. 

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Regardless of whether OP is trolling or not. Does anyone else find it hilarious that the PS is the single aspect of the entire admissions process that requires any level of personality yet has a huge market to "edit" (aka exaggerate and fabricate) it?

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11 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

No I haven't. Thank you, I've changed my approach to this exam and I'm confident I can improve with my new study schedule and guidance of my mentor.  Everything before was a mess.

Before you go back and forth further and get crushed by the people here who will pick apart what you say.

You seem to have a good gig at the bank making 70k a year fresh out of school. Also seems like a management trajectory type role you are in. 

Why put yourself through the stress and the agony to try and go to law school when you got a good gig going for you now.

You might make less than 70k coming out of law school and you won't necessarily have a clear trajectory/path to make partner. 

From what I've seen, you got a lot of work ahead of you. Basic grammar, parsing, and logic which are all important skills for the LSAT but also in professional life. If somehow you can forgo these skills in your current position, stick to it brother, you got a good thing going!

Edited by LSATGRIND69
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4 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

It's not statistically likely that people improve but it is possible. I was able to but it took a long time and I never broke 170. I think what's important at this point is not to apply again until you get your desired score on paper. If you're planning on taking the August test that gives you time to make sure you can confirm you can do it before filling out apps. One mistake I made was that I thought the pressure of the test would actually help me get an increased score, like the adrenaline would help my focus and concentration. In reality I ended up scoring exactly where I was averaging in my PT's, and that's probably right around where you'll score. Is it absolutely necessary for you to go to stats heavy schools like U of T? Sorry if you mentioned this already, but do you have a stellar GPA as well? You can get in (even to U of T I think) without a 170. My advice is to give yourself smaller milestones instead of one big one. 

Thanks for advice :) and yes my GPA is great as well... LSAT is the hurdle I need to cross. I'd be happy with either UofT, UBC or Osgoode. Small milestones is a good idea.

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7 minutes ago, LSATGRIND69 said:

Before you go back and forth further and get crushed by the people here who will pick apart what you say.

You seem to have a good gig at the bank making 70k a year fresh out of school. Also seems like a management trajectory type role you are in. 

Why put yourself through the stress and the agony to try and go to law school when you got a good gig going for you now.

You might make less than 70k coming out of law school and you won't necessarily have a clear trajectory/path to make partner. 

From what I've seen, you got a lot of work ahead of you. Basic grammar, parsing, and logic which are all important skills for the LSAT but also in professional life. If somehow you can forgo these skills in your current position, stick to it brother, you got a good thing going!

Are you a practicing lawyer? 

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8 minutes ago, HotDiggity said:

Regardless of whether OP is trolling or not. Does anyone else find it hilarious that the PS is the single aspect of the entire admissions process that requires any level of personality yet has a huge market to "edit" (aka exaggerate and fabricate) it?

A professionally written PS seems a terrible idea. It's not supposed to be an exercise in creative writing. What a law school applicant thinks sounds amazing probably sounds ridiculous to adcoms. 

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9 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

Thanks for advice :) and yes my GPA is great as well... LSAT is the hurdle I need to cross. I'd be happy with either UofT, UBC or Osgoode. Small milestones is a good idea.

What's your OLSAS-calculated GPA?

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1 minute ago, chaboywb said:

A professionally written PS seems a terrible idea. It's not supposed to be an exercise in creative writing. What a law school applicant thinks sounds amazing probably sounds ridiculous to adcoms. 

I really wish more schools would release examples of great ones besides those U of T ones. 

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23 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

Thanks for advice :) and yes my GPA is great as well... LSAT is the hurdle I need to cross. I'd be happy with either UofT, UBC or Osgoode. Small milestones is a good idea.

If your GPA is as good as you say it is, the 160 range will be fine for admission.

The LSAT is an incredibly tough test on a lot of people, cognitively and emotionally.  The good news is that a 142 score indicates that you just don’t know basic test strategies yet. With proper instruction you’ll get these, and you’ll likely have a very steep upward learning curve (although, unfortunately, likely not up to the 170s - 150s-160s is more likely, and the rest is up to you). 

Good luck, hope this was helpful 

Edited by navyblue11
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1 minute ago, navyblue11 said:

The good news is that a 142 score indicates that you just don’t know basic test strategies yet. With proper instruction you’ll get these, and you’ll likely have a very steep upward learning curve

This is exactly what I was referring to in my response to the links that @almostnot posted. Go look at them. Out of 1335 people who scored 142 on their first write, only 195 of them achieved a 150-159 on their rewrite, and only 2 scored above a 160. Those numbers certainly tell a story, and it's the exact opposite of the story you're telling. You say "the 160 range will be fine for admission," but literally only 1 in 667 people who scored a 142 were then able to achieve a 160+.

To say that his low score is "good news" because it demonstrates that he doesn't "know basic test strategies yet" (and by implication I guess somehow this is more promising than having a higher but still middling score?) is absurd.

I am honestly not trying to shit on anyone in particular here. But this sort of narrative that gets perpetuated on this site about LSAT improvement prospects needs some pushback because it's just not borne out empirically.

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37 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

Are you a practicing lawyer? 

I am not... but I've done my due diligence and you should too. 

I wouldn't put too much thought on the replies in this forum. Spread out and ask your question/s on reddit and 7sage. You'll get different perspectives which might be of help.

A note for the LSAT, the only success stories I've heard of for short term 20+ point gains are people who dedicated large amounts of time and energy to the LSAT. We are talking someone who wakes up and first thing he does is review LSAT questions , video records himself during a PT for review later, counts the amount of breaths he takes in between questions, has a journal of what he eats/drinks the day before and the day of a PT, etc. This person is literally obsessed with the LSAT and practically everything he does is related to the LSAT. You will likely need to be this drastic to get the score you are looking for.

If you got any questions, feel free to PM me.

Edited by LSATGRIND69

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17 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

This is exactly what I was referring to in my response to the links that @almostnot posted. Go look at them. Out of 1335 people who scored 142 on their first write, only 195 of them achieved a 150-159 on their rewrite, and only 2 scored above a 160. Those numbers certainly tell a story, and it's the exact opposite of the story you're telling. You say "the 160 range will be fine for admission," but literally only 1 in 667 people who scored a 142 were then able to achieve a 160+.

To say that his low score is "good news" because it demonstrates that he doesn't "know basic test strategies yet" (and by implication I guess somehow this is more promising than having a higher but still middling score?) is absurd.

I am honestly not trying to shit on anyone in particular here. But this sort of narrative that gets perpetuated on this site about LSAT improvement prospects needs some pushback because it's just not borne out empirically.

I mean it’s better that they’re getting a 142 with practically no knowledge than a 142 after a proper LSAT study regimen. Simply not having knowledge of the proper strategies and concepts is an easier fix than trying to explain something they’re just not getting, and their score will improve (maybe not to 160, I’m aware, which is why I included the 150 range in there too) if they can learn and get those strategies and concepts under their belt. 

I didn’t read through that link, but if the info that’s in there is as reliable as you say, then yeah, I’d refer OP to have a look to be able to manage expectations. 

Edited by navyblue11

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50 minutes ago, techlaw2025 said:

I'd be happy with either UofT, UBC or Osgoode.

Why these ones only? (Dare I ask?)

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