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legallybrunette3

What's the deal with school rankings?

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14 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

The idea that "elite" undergraduate programs and internships are full of disadvantaged students and community colleges are full of privileged rich kids who take fluff courses and don't have to work is just bizarre, even to the point of standing out for that quality in a thread full of people making weird claims. That's why it comes across as sour grapes.

This was quite clearly not my point, which I know you understand considering you felt the need to caricature my position. I do not think it is "bizarre" to assume that if financial security is present for a given student, other factors than employment prospects will come to the forefront in their decision making process - these other factors could simply be one's interest in a subject (as I have already discussed), but they could also very well be a lower difficulty level. 

Also, it is ridiculous to construe my point as saying that "elite undergraduate programs and internships are full of disadvantaged students" when my overarching theme is accessibility to those elite institutions for disadvantaged students in the first place. 

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30 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

They let in 8% of their class with a 3.5. And yeah no shit you need a top 15% LSAT, are you now saying your friend should both shit the bed in school and on the LSAT and still

No. What I’m saying is that based on rational choice theory, the decision to not expend time and money studying for the LSAT/submitting applications in hopes of a 2.8% chance of admission isn’t as “asinine” as you make it seem. In fact, it’s the complete opposite. 
 

Sure, some schools have lower admit stats. You’d have to ask my friend why he didn’t consider those schools, but my friend’s story is only a anecdote to the overarching core argument that I made earlier about program difficulty. 
 

Bro 😉
 

 

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1 hour ago, HopefulLawyer97 said:

I took some 3rd and 4th year BA electives where almost everyone in the class got an A lol.

If this is true (something tells me you’re exaggerating), its not at all representative. I did a BA, and I’m sympathetic to the point that BAs are generally easier to get higher GPAs in (if I did an engineering degree, I’d probably fail out) - but every single one of my Sociology/Poli Sci classes throughout my degree had a class average in the low 70s or lower. Pretty sure that’s completely standard. It’s just not the case that they’re tossing out As to everyone who enrols.

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27 minutes ago, masterofnut said:

every single one of my Sociology/Poli Sci classes throughout my degree had a class average in the low 70s or lower. Pretty sure that’s completely standard. It’s just not the case that they’re tossing out As to everyone who enrols.

Anecdotal corroboration: Class average for a given course  in my BA (Film Studies) was 68-72%

We had a lot of students enroll in a class expecting a GPA-boosting elective (who wouldn't want to take "Science Fiction Cinema" course?). Many students dropped the course after they got their first paper back.

There was exactly one (1) course in my program that was a legitimate "easy A" (Cult Cinema).

Edited by canuckfanatic
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10 minutes ago, canuckfanatic said:

There was exactly one (1) course in my program that was a legitimate "easy A" (Cult Cinema).

Side note this class sounds awesome omg...

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1 hour ago, HopefulLawyer97 said:

No. What I’m saying is that based on rational choice theory, the decision to not expend time and money studying for the LSAT/submitting applications in hopes of a 2.8% chance of admission isn’t as “asinine” as you make it seem. In fact, it’s the complete opposite. 
 

Sure, some schools have lower admit stats. You’d have to ask my friend why he didn’t consider those schools, but my friend’s story is only a anecdote to the overarching core argument that I made earlier about program difficulty. 
 

Bro 😉
 

 

You’re cherry picking stats. And yeah, if your STEM major friend can’t score above a 161, maybe they don’t deserve to go to law school. If a STEM degree is as tough on GPA, as you say, it should be counterbalanced by the individual’s LSAT skills, seeing as your thesis is that the program was the issue and not the student’s abilities.

Your friend probably just wanted excuses and chose to blame the system and their GPA instead of putting work in.

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26 minutes ago, masterofnut said:

If this is true (something tells me you’re exaggerating), its not at all representative. I did a BA, and I’m sympathetic to the point that BAs are generally easier to get higher GPAs in (if I did an engineering degree, I’d probably fail out) - but every single one of my Sociology/Poli Sci classes throughout my degree had a class average in the low 70s or lower. Pretty sure that’s completely standard. It’s just not the case that they’re tossing out As to everyone who enrols.

Probably depends on the school, faculty and course. Having said that, competing on a curve in a BA program that has an admission average of 75% is going to be easier than competing on a curve for a program that has an admission cutoff of 93% including at least 2 maths. But yea, I’m not exaggerating. Took some electives that were literally easier than high school lol

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4 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

And yeah, if your STEM major friend can’t score above a 161, maybe they don’t deserve to go to law school. If a STEM degree is as tough on GPA, as you say, it should be counterbalanced by the individual’s LSAT skills, seeing as your thesis is that the program was the issue and not the student’s abilities.

Isn't that @HopefulLawyer97 OG point? If they didn't do the rigorous STEM they could have spent more time on the LSAT? I don't particularly agree with it being easier to get a 4.0 with an arts degree, it might actually be harder to get a 4.0 and an elective isn't reflective of what it takes. It just seems y'all are going in circles about this. 

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6 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

Isn't that @HopefulLawyer97 OG point? If they didn't do the rigorous STEM they could have spent more time on the LSAT? I don't particularly agree with it being easier to get a 4.0 with an arts degree, it might actually be harder to get a 4.0 and an elective isn't reflective of what it takes. It just seems y'all are going in circles about this. 

Huh? Undergrad is 4 years. What’s stopping this person from doing the lsat now? You don’t need to do it during your schooling.

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29 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Huh? Undergrad is 4 years. What’s stopping this person from doing the lsat now? You don’t need to do it during your schooling.

It's not even my point, but I don't think that matters with their point, which I think is that the easiest combo to go with for getting into law school is "easy" undergrad + maximum LSAT study time, and the easier undergrad would maximize that study time. MY only point is that you already argued about this and it seemed like it was about to repeat. Anyway... as you were. 

edit: sorry I meant since the point was made it was argued not you specifically, shouldn't have said you. 

 

Edited by legallybrunette3
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2 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

It's not even my point, but I don't think that matters with their point, which I think is that the easiest combo to go with for getting into law school is "easy" undergrad + maximum LSAT study time, and the easier undergrad would maximize that study time. MY only point is that you already argued about this and it seemed like it was about to repeat. Anyway... as you were. 

 

That’s not the point at all. They’re arguing a 3.5 GPA precludes them from law school. Study time never even came up until you mentioned it.

 

edit: I’ll add that if you need more than 6 weeks to prepare, you lack a natural aptitude for the LSAT and I’m again not persuaded that the difficulty of someone’s degree and obtaining a 3.5 GPA is the limiting factor in getting into law school.

Edited by Rashabon

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44 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

It just seems y'all are going in circles about this. 

This happens a lot in these big threads lol. It's almost formulaic.

Person A argues something.

Person B refutes.

Person A claps back.

Person B latches onto a small detail of Person A's argument and picks it apart.

Person A claps back on that small detail and elaborates on why it wasn't, in fact, flawed.

Person B picks apart Person A's reasoning once again regarding the flaw in the small detail of their first argument.

So on and so forth, suddenly the thread derails, and the small detail becomes the whole conversation. OP watches in horror as their inbox is blown to shreds.

Stonks?

Edited by Firecracker
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4 minutes ago, Firecracker said:

This happens a lot in these big threads lol. It's almost formulaic.

Person A argues something.

Person B refutes.

Person A claps back.

Person B latches onto a small detail of Person A's argument and picks it apart.

Person A claps back on that small detail and elaborates on why it wasn't, in fact, flawed.

Person B picks apart Person B's reasoning once again regarding the flaw in the small detail of their first argument.

So on and so forth, suddenly the thread derails, and the small detail becomes the whole conversation. OP watches in horror as their inbox is blown to shreds.

Stonks?

It’s more interesting than having the school ranking discussion 1000 times.

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2 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

It’s more interesting than having the school ranking discussion 1000 times.

idk if it was more interesting but rather equally uninteresting 

I did actually gain some good insight, but from like 3 posts. Hopefully others gained something as well. 

Edited by legallybrunette3

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1 hour ago, castlepie said:

Side note this class sounds awesome omg...

It was awesome! I wrote my mid-term paper on Karl Urban's Dredd and my final paper on Napoleon Dynamite.

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8 hours ago, Ichigo said:

if it meant that everyday I woke up, I'd be excited to study law and I looked forward to the day ahead. 

Oh my dear sweet summer child...

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7 hours ago, HammurabiTime said:

No one has said that people won't improve with study. The fact that you and your friend increased your scores doesn't inexorably lead to the conclusion that everyone can increase their score an unlimited amount. It doesn't even establish that you and your friend could increase your score an unlimited amount.

Uhh... too many logical flaws in your comment for me to even respond lol. 

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13 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

It’s more interesting than having the school ranking discussion 1000 times.

Yea let's get back to that discussion. I was wondering where UVic would fall in an objective ranking. It's a small school and its median admission stats seem to be on the higher end. Other than that I don't know much about it. Anyone have any thoughts? 

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2 minutes ago, HopefulLawyer97 said:

Yea let's get back to that discussion. I was wondering where UVic would fall in an objective ranking. It's a small school and its median admission stats seem to be on the higher end. Other than that I don't know much about it. Anyone have any thoughts? 

Viewed as equivalent to UBC in the Vancouver market. Doesn't have much of a national brand outside of BC (by no means poorly regarded elsewhere, but probably not given the credit it should and really not treated differently from any middle-of-the-road Canadian law school).

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16 minutes ago, chicolate said:

Uhh... too many logical flaws in your comment for me to even respond lol. 

The classic "I don't have a good response to a rational argument against my bad point". But yeah too many logical flaws that you are too tired to point out. 

Edit: Kind of reminds me of that anti-masker in that one thread

Edited by Re7o

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