Jump to content

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, FortifiedEight said:

In my 2L year, it seemed to affect anyone over 27. It may differ by year, school, firm, etc.

FWIW I know this is anecdotal but I started law school at 30, I never once had the sort of negative interview experience you allude to, and I actually found that my age and experience made it much easier for me to get offers.

I should mention the major caveat that I was applying within a specific practice area where I had some relevant prior work experience. But I had law school friends over half a decade younger than me applying for the same jobs that I was and I ended up juggling multiple offers while they struck out, even when said friends were smarter than me and had better grades than me.

Being a mature student will result in you being looked at differently, but that can cut both ways.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

FWIW I know this is anecdotal but I started law school at 30, I never once had the sort of negative interview experience you allude to, and I actually found that my age and experience made it much easier for me to get offers.

I should mention the major caveat that I was applying within a specific practice area where I had some relevant prior work experience. But I had law school friends over half a decade younger than me applying for the same jobs that I was and I ended up juggling multiple offers while they struck out, even when said friends were smarter than me and had better grades than me.

Being a mature student will result in you being looked at differently, but that can cut both ways.

This is why I spoke to the hyper-individualism of these issues. If you have a niche and are a mature student, that can put you ahead of others. But not always - I had significant work and volunteer experience in a niche, and the interviewers made it very clear my age still worked against me. It depends on the niche and the interviewers (and probably also just how old you actually appear to be).

Edited by FortifiedEight
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, FortifiedEight said:

This is why I spoke to the hyper-individualism of these issues. If you have a niche and are a mature student, that can put you ahead of others. But not always - I had significant work and volunteer experience in a niche, and the interviewers made it very clear my age still worked against me. It depends on the niche and the interviewers.

Yeah, I believe you and I'm sorry that happened. I just wanted to share my experience for the benefit of those wondering what things are like for mature law students, given that the thread has several perspectives from people who weren't as lucky as I was. I won't pretend that my experience is universal. I would just emphasize that mature applicants are indeed looked at differently by employers than K-JDs, but that can be a good or a bad thing.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, FortifiedEight said:

That doesn't mean the firms consider that when negating an applicant based on their age.

Is age just impossible to prove as the reason for negating it? I mean aren't there age discrimination codes in place for this? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, legallybrunette3 said:

Is age just impossible to prove as the reason for negating it? I mean aren't there age discrimination codes in place for this? 

I can't imagine how you would go about proving it with law interviews. Aside from government, there is no objective metric by which law firms evaluate you. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Starling said:

I can't imagine how you would go about proving it with law interviews. Aside from government, there is no objective metric by which law firms evaluate you. 

If it's so glaringly obvious that it happens, other than just feeling like it was age that turned them off you, I would assume there must be some way to prove it. But perhaps not. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

If it's so glaringly obvious that it happens, other than just feeling like it was age that turned them off you, I would assume there must be some way to prove it. But perhaps not. 

I mean, lawyers in a hiring position aren't going to be dumb enough to say "we aren't going to hire you because of your age". It sounds like with the other posters, the interviewers mostly just went cold or the tone changed, which likely wouldn't be enough to prove discrimination. Especially because law interviews (aside from government) don't use any sort of objective metric when evaluating candidates. It's a lot about "fit", which obviously could mean anything. 

 

Edited by Starling
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Starling said:

I mean, lawyers in a hiring position aren't going to be dumb enough to say "we aren't going to hire you because of your age". It sounds like with the other posters, the interviewers mostly just went cold or the tone changed, which likely wouldn't be enough to prove discrimination. Especially because law interviews (aside from government) don't use any sort of objective metric when evaluating candidates. It's a lot about "fit", which obviously could mean anything. 

 

I get that but if it's just based on a feeling of change of tone there could be some confirmation bias if you're going into the interview knowing that your age is a known deterrent. I have never actually been in that position so I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, I'm just trying to understand it as a concerned future mature applicant. 

Edited by legallybrunette3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

I get that but if it's just based on a feeling of change of tone there could be some confirmation bias if you're going into the interview knowing about the stigma. I have never actually been in that position so I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, I'm just trying to understand it as a concerned future mature applicant. 

Rarely is discrimination overt (ex: "I am not hiring you because you're too old"). Rather, any kind of discrimination is generally ascertained indirectly. Sometimes it's a change in tone when something indicative of your age comes up, or you check the firm website and all the students look to be the same age, or whatever. Yes, you can make the argument that one never really knows they've been discriminated against based on age, but if enough people having similar stories, it's not unreasonable to deduce that age discrimination is at play. 

Edited by Psychometronic
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Psychometronic said:

if enough people having similar stories, it's not unreasonable to deduce that age discrimination is at play. 

is that not enough to have a case? (again not arguing, genuinely curious) 

Edited by legallybrunette3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, legallybrunette3 said:

is that not enough to have a case? (again not arguing, genuinely curious) 

There's a difference between stories that help inform people asking questions on this site and sufficient evidence to bring a case before the Human Rights Tribunal. 

If you're curious about what it takes to bring a successful application, I suggest you read the cases that have gone before the HRT. In my province, that'd be the BCHRT. 

Edited by Psychometronic
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Psychometronic said:

If you're curious about what it takes to bring a successful application, I suggest you read the cases that have gone before the HRT. In my province, that'd be the BCHRT. 

will do thanks! If you have any links you could DM me that'd be awesome. I'll try to google it up on my own though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

I get that but if it's just based on a feeling of change of tone there could be some confirmation bias if you're going into the interview knowing that your age is a known deterrent. I have never actually been in that position so I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, I'm just trying to understand it as a concerned future mature applicant. 

If it makes you feel any better, I know a couple mature applicants who got OCI jobs. They had great grades and work experience, but I don't think they had a hard time getting interest from firms. I think they're mid-30s to early 40s. 

Edited by Starling
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CleanHands said:

FWIW I know this is anecdotal but I started law school at 30, I never once had the sort of negative interview experience you allude to, and I actually found that my age and experience made it much easier for me to get offers.

I should mention the major caveat that I was applying within a specific practice area where I had some relevant prior work experience. But I had law school friends over half a decade younger than me applying for the same jobs that I was and I ended up juggling multiple offers while they struck out, even when said friends were smarter than me and had better grades than me.

Being a mature student will result in you being looked at differently, but that can cut both ways.

Ditto. I went to law school as a mature student. Never faced any negative attitudes. Most firms and organizations were very interested in my previous experience and maturity. Depending on your age and where you apply, you may sometimes have to answer a question intended to delicately gauge if "you still got the stamina to bill 2400 hrs while taking orders from associates and partners younger than you?"

It comes down to attitude. The successful mature law students in my cohort didn't care about their age, got involved, made friends, and had or developed legal passions just like everyone else. They brought that into recruitment processes and did well because firms and organizations like to hire smart, positive, passionate people. Then there were those who acted like Roger Murdaugh in Lethal Weapon, constantly and vocally expressing im-too-old-for-this-shit attitudes; or who condescended to the younger law students because they thought their age and experience gave them some special legal wisdom powers. Attitude often bleeds into job applications and interviews, and acts as a red flag. That's likely why some people perceive that they've faced some form of age discrimination when what actually happened was a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Starling said:

If it makes you feel any better, I know a couple mature applicants who got OCI jobs. They had great grades and work experience, but I don't think they had a hard time getting interest from firms. I think they're mid-30s to early 40s. 

haha thank you. A good friend of mine was also a mature who ended up killing it in every stage of their LS and professional career so I know for sure it's possible. But they're an especially dazzling individual so I'm tempering my expectations. 

Edited by legallybrunette3
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, FineCanadianFXs said:

Attitude often bleeds into job applications and interviews, and acts as a red flag. That's likely why some people perceive that they've faced some form of age discrimination when what actually happened was a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think this is a hugely important factor. When I worked in recruiting more often than not the people who called to bitch about not being offered a job or considered for a role were the ones who came into the interview with a chip on their shoulder. And I say this as someone who actually is too-old-for-this-shit most of the time. Just hide it during the interview ;)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Veggie77 said:

And I say this as someone who actually is too-old-for-this-shit most of the time. Just hide it during the interview ;)

I'm too old for this shit, but I hated my life before starting law school more than after starting law school, which might not exactly lead to positivity per se, but does lead to a reasonable enough approximation of it. :P

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CleanHands said:

-snip-

...a reasonable enough approximation of [positivity].

I think being able to fake a reasonable approximation of positivity regardless of circumstance is an important life lesson. Certainly one I've had to learn as a (relatively) old fogey.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, PlayALawyerOnTV said:

I think being able to fake a reasonable approximation of positivity regardless of circumstance is an important life lesson. Certainly one I've had to learn as a (relatively) old fogey.

Absolutely!! The ability to paste a shit eating grin on your face and grin and bear it when necessary is a totally under rated skill. And honestly, thank god for masks and camera-free meetings these days because it makes that so much easier.

I spent close to 14 years as a stay at home parent, then returned to work. To a lot of people it would be a glaring negative, and could easily be something that would make people defensive in an interview, believing that they'd be challenged on the time "off". My experience, though, is by treating it as an asset and highlighting all the ways it allowed me to gain experiences that would benefit the company to which I was applying. My assumption is, should I be accepted to law school, the same principle will apply for me as a mature student, and instead of being defensive about the fact that I'm ancient it won't be impossible to frame it in a way that's to the firm's benefit to hire me

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, CleanHands said:

I'm too old for this shit, but I hated my life before starting law school more than after starting law school, which might not exactly lead to positivity per se, but does lead to a reasonable enough approximation of it. :P

I have straight up lost count of the number of things I've done in my life because I hated option B more than I hated option A. I feel this on a cellular level.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Recent Posts

    • Nah, don't think there was a round this week (although some people have been moved in queue)? Maybe some movement next week, stay strong kids!
    • Thank you so much for the kind words and taking the time to write such a detailed message. I really really appreciate it.  Congrats on the opportunity and congrats on getting into law school! Sounds like you had quite the journey. You've given me some things to think about for sure, if I do happen to be unsuccessful this application round I definitely think I'll need to take a break and go out into the world for a bit.  It just sucks because I feel like I have a strong GPA and a borderline LSAT- I have a few friends who were in the same boat but got in last year at the U of A. I just want an acceptance somewhere haha.   
    • I think I'm just still reeling from the craziness that is 8 am on call day, but if a firm offers you an 8/9am Monday interview spot and you give them a mid-day Monday spot instead, does this hurt your chances with them at all or is it not a big deal?
    • No idea - I’m on for next month, I deferred from this month. Let us know when you get it, that would be very helpful to know!
    • Well this thread devolved quite predictably. I thank everyone for their responses and will write my PS with a focus on my political experiences.

×
×
  • Create New...