Jump to content
carsonpetroz

Chances? cGPA 3.72/166

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, JordanPippen said:

On behalf of everyone who has posted,¬†sorry for completely hijacking your thread ūüėā

So holistic application discussion aside... hopefully OG thread members hear some good news this week!! ~sending good vibes~

I appreciate the discourse!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, HarveyRoss369 said:

Grades/LSAT aren't always the best indicator of someone's potential.

No, they aren't "always." But in the aggregate, for predicting law school performance, they actually are the best indicators we've got.

That said, the correlations still aren't that strong. But let's not overstate things and totally diminish the significance of prior academic performance and demonstrated logical reasoning and reading comprehension.

These conversations tend to be really silly because people going through the process are really invested in advocating for whatever admission policies would benefit them personally. It shouldn't be controversial to say that current admission practices for any given Canadian school (be they stats-focused, holistic, whatever) aren't perfect but they aren't completely meritless either. And frankly anyone who feels strongly about this probably isn't an all-star candidate themselves (or they would be admitted under any standard) so they should feel grateful if they get admitted (I know I did) and look to improve themselves and not play victim if they don't. If 3.9GPA/175LSATs or Nobel Prize winners were getting multiple rejections I'd feel there was a legitimate bitch to be had about the admission processes, but frankly that's not happening and it's all working out "fair enough."

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/28/2021 at 5:42 PM, CleanHands said:

@HopefulLawyer97 - You have argued that it's far easier to secure a strong GPA in some undergraduate programs than others. So it's a bit odd for you to also assert that a combination of GPA and LSAT should be the be-all and end-all as a form of "objective" assessment for law school admissions.

Any element of subjectivity in these things is inevitably going to be criticized, but there's really no totally and uncontroversially "objective" or "fair" way of doing this (as the endless debates on this site illustrate).

Coming back to this because I forgot to respond and I never turn down a good heabutting with @CleanHands, despite the fact that he gets more upvotes than me and everyone seems to think I'm evil. 

To some degree, I do think program difficulty can be assessed on an objective basis, and there are programs (albeit, not law programs) that do so. 

Ivey HBA (deferred entry), arguably one of the most difficult programs to gain entry to in Canada, looks for an 80+ average in the first two years of undergraduate study. However, for engineering students, this requirement is lowered on an objective basis because the school recognizes that this standard isn't as easy to meet for such individuals. Obviously law schools don't have cutoffs for GPA and LSAT, but I do think this should and could figure in a fair and objective analysis. 

In any event, as per my own discussions with Osgoode's reps, Oz doesn't consider program difficulty as a holistic factor. I was told that a BA liberal arts student might find engineering easy, and an engineering major might find BA liberal arts hard, which theoretically makes sense, but practically, on average, I doubt it. 

My contention is that holistic factors can and should come into play, but to a limited degree. 

For instance, if applicant A has a profile of 3.7/160 and applicant B has a profile of 3.65/158, but applicant B was the captain of a varsity team for a couple years, volunteered or ran a club, sure, admit applicant B first. 

What I don't believe is that someone with stats well below the historical 25th percentile should be admitted before someone with stats above the historical 75th percentile on the basis of purely subjective and largely unverifiable holistic factors. I think such a policy is more geared towards being "stylish" in pursuit of creating a "diverse class" rather than admitting students who are more likely to succeed on an objective basis. The only holistic factor for which I believe this might be justified is for racial considerations on the basis of equity. 

I agree with you that while GPA/LSAT profiles aren't directly correlated with law school success. But they are the best we have, and thus, should have the most weighting. 

Edited by HopefulLawyer97
  • Like 4
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

No, they aren't "always." But in the aggregate, for predicting law school performance, they actually are the best indicators we've got.

That said, the correlations still aren't that strong. But let's not overstate things and totally diminish the significance of prior academic performance and demonstrated logical reasoning and reading comprehension.

These conversations tend to be really silly because people going through the process are really invested in advocating for whatever admission policies would benefit them personally. It shouldn't be controversial to say that current admission practices for any given Canadian school (be they stats-focused, holistic, whatever) aren't perfect but they aren't completely meritless either. And frankly anyone who feels strongly about this probably isn't an all-star candidate themselves (or they would be admitted under any standard) so they should feel grateful if they get admitted (I know I did) and look to improve themselves and not play victim if they don't. If 3.9GPA/175LSATs or Nobel Prize winners were getting multiple rejections I'd feel there was a legitimate bitch to be had about the admission processes, but frankly that's not happening and it's all working out "fair enough."

100% - I agree with you.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, HopefulLawyer97 said:

Coming back to this because I forgot to respond and I never turn down a good heabutting with @CleanHands, despite the fact that he gets more upvotes than me and everyone seems to think I'm evil. 

As much as I appreciate people who are willing to throw down (and I assure you we're both controversial as a result of our mutual willingness to do so), it's pretty cringe to complain about Internet stickers and forum meanies, bro. Either don't be controversial (I don't think this is in your nature, but it's not in mine either so I'm not judging) or own being controversial and don't apologize for it or gripe about pushback. Also, I thought you mentioned getting friendly DMs from people agreeing with you about stuff, so "everyone seems to think I'm evil" might be slightly hyperbolic.

4 minutes ago, HopefulLawyer97 said:

-Snip-

I actually don't disagree with most of your points about how this could be fine-tuned towards some ideal admissions policy. Our idea of best practices is quite aligned. But where we do disagree is about how important this really is, how much "fairness" and "objectivity" we should reasonably demand from schools in the process, and, I think, to what extent these various factors really are "objective" rather than value judgements about what qualities law schools should look for.

The world is full of competitions that can't uncontroversially be determined by some logical and objective criteria that can be established that can rank order candidates in some almost scientific way. Marginal candidates for law school admissions griping about the criteria will encounter similar things in all the recruits in law schools, in job competitions beyond that, in processes for promotions within work they do, in who gets to work what files, etc. And it's the same in all sorts of contexts outside law school. I'm not saying that unfairness is okay simply because worse forms of unfairness exist, but I'm saying as a practical point everyone needs to learn that there are elements of subjectivity in all sorts of competitions that will affect the opportunities available to them, that these things won't always go their way, and there are plenty of other opportunities and one needs to learn how to deal with not winning every competition. Wherever there is disagreement and subjectivity and room for debate, you will encounter situations where a decision-maker happens not to agree with you about what to place more weight on.

Of course, this could all be mitigated against by being the best of the best. But most of us aren't, so we should accept that accordingly we can't always get everything we want.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

it's pretty cringe to complain about Internet stickers and forum meanies, bro.

I’m not, I don’t give a rats ass lol

  • Like 1
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, has anyone been waitlisted yet? My anxiety is growing quickly by the day lol. What do you think it means that they have started the wait list? do you think they’re done with acceptances?

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hopefullawstudent99 said:

Hey guys, has anyone been waitlisted yet? My anxiety is growing quickly by the day lol. What do you think it means that they have started the wait list? do you think they’re done with acceptances?

Nope no notification of a waitlist position over here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, carsonpetroz said:

Looks like someone posted in another thread that they have been waitlisted. 

Pls share 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, hopefullawstudent99 said:

Hey guys, has anyone been waitlisted yet? My anxiety is growing quickly by the day lol. What do you think it means that they have started the wait list? do you think they’re done with acceptances?

Yeah I’m confused....I just wanna hear some sort of decision so I can make firm plans at another school. ARGH 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Osgoode really out here playing hard to get 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rejections came out today too, I think it's just a matter of time before we find out what will happen to us

  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, blech77 said:

Rejections came out today too, I think it's just a matter of time before we find out what will happen to us

Eek yeah, I think our time is coming to hear back either way... Im scared to check tomorrow! 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, hopefullawstudent99 said:

Eek yeah, I think our time is coming to hear back either way... Im scared to check tomorrow! 

Same!!! When I saw the rejection, I was panicking to check to see if I got rejected too ūü•≤

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those of you who didn't get a chance to see my post in the waitlist thread, I emailed Vicky and she said they will continue issuing offers from the queue while also posting waitlist/rejection decisions. It's a funny process but it's better than just having the possibility of getting accepted from the waitlist. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got in in 2019 with a 3.61/156. You're def good 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, carsonpetroz said:

Kind of a sad day for this thread

I really hope anyone waitlisted here does get in off the waitlist, all of these stats are great. I'm sure you guys will be near the top of the waitlist and may very well get accepted from it, so don't give up hope. With this extremely weird cycle you never know what's gonna happen. While I myself have received no update yet, I'm truly rooting for all of you.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...