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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

There aren’t stats, it’s just common knowledge when you run in those circles. I personally know about 90% of the U of T and Osgoode grads who headed south in the past three years, and not one of them is at a non-Cravath scale firm. 

You have a history of providing wrong and, quite frankly, weird advice about NY big law on this forum. I think any users reading your posts should keep in mind that they’re getting advice from a 1L with seemingly little understanding of NY big law or the routes Canadian students take to get there.  

That is exactly what I said, there are no official stats from UofT while there is official stats from NYU. So what is the matter? 

Unless the CDO is willing to release the official stats (which I think they should if it is great), we can only rely on the incomplete and self-reported stats provided. 

So again, the only thing we can say for sure is the official stats provided by NYU. You want to disagree?

Edited by lawlawlaw777

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

That is exactly what I said, there are no official stats from UofT while there is official stats from NYU. So what is the matter? 

Unless the CDO is willing to release the official stats (which I think they should if it is great), we can only rely on the incomplete and self-reported stats provided. 

So again, the only thing we can say for sure is the official stats provided by NYU. You want to disagree?

The number of U of T students reported to be in New York is often based on these "incomplete and self-reported stats," which detail the firms that these students are going to. If there's U of T students not listed on UV or the CDO list, and choosing not to self-report, they're not included in the often-quoted numbers anyway. There's a total of 23 students in the 2020 UV recruit results, which falls within the range that typically head to New York. All 23 of those students are at Cravath-scale firms. 

Edited by Kada
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Kada said:

The number of U of T students reported to be in New York is often based on these "incomplete and self-reported stats," which detail the firms that these students are going to. If there's U of T students not listed on UV or the CDO list, and choosing not to self-report, they're not included in the often-quoted numbers anyway. There's a total of 23 students in the 2020 UV recruit results, which falls within the range that typically head to New York. All 23 of those students are at Cravath-scale firms. 

That is good to hear. Thank you for the clarification. 

So out of 203 students at UofT, 23 of them landed great jobs in NYC. Basically means that the OP would need to be the very top of the class (like almost straight As) if she/he chooses to go from UofT to NYC biglaw right? I also heard that some of those UofT JDs with MBAs or JD with rotman background, which they have every year, tend to also take up those numbers?

 

Edited by lawlawlaw777

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1 hour ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

Can you provide the stats from a credible source that all UofT law grads landing Cravath scale firm jobs in NYC? 

 

1 hour ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

That is exactly what I said, there are no official stats from UofT while there is official stats from NYU. So what is the matter? 

Unless the CDO is willing to release the official stats (which I think they should if it is great), we can only rely on the incomplete and self-reported stats provided. 

To anyone who has attended a Canadian law school, it is completely absurd to challenge that suggestion, and it really demonstrates that you have no idea what you are talking about.

To any applicants reading this thread: don't listen to anything this guy writes.

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4 minutes ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

That is good to hear. Thank you for the clarification. 

So out of 203 students at UofT, 23 of them landed great jobs in NYC. Basically means that the OP would need to be the very top of the class (like almost straight As) if she/he chooses to go from UofT to NYC biglaw right? I also heard that some of those UofT JDs with MBAs or JD with rotman background, which they have every year, tend to also take up those numbers?

 

Yes, some of the students who go to New York are JD/MBAs. I would direct anyone reading this to look into U of T's grading system (HH/H/P distribution) and UV's 2019 New York results as a starting point if they are really set on going to New York from U of T. Some excerpts:

"Ultra Vires also polled those students headed down to the Big Apple on the number of Hs they received in their first year. Thirteen of them responded: the average number of Hs is 7.7, with a range of 4 to 11. These figures are self-reported, so the usual caveats apply. (UVcounts one HH as two Hs and one P as zero Hs.)"

"This year, twenty eager students from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law are heading down to New York, where they will be introduced to Big Law, and be wined and dined, by some of the top law firms in the United States (see chart). Eight are JD/MBA students."

This is incomplete data and not representative of every year's results, but I'm hoping to provide some numbers instead of broader generalizations here.

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35 minutes ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

So out of 203 students at UofT, 23 of them landed great jobs in NYC. Basically means that the OP would need to be the very top of the class (like almost straight As) if she/he chooses to go from UofT to NYC biglaw right? I also heard that some of those UofT JDs with MBAs or JD with rotman background, which they have every year, tend to also take up those numbers?

I don't at all think it's a safe assumption that the ~10% of the class heading to NY maps directly onto the top 10% of the class. A pretty significant number of people don't bother applying for NY in any given year, including some on the Dean's list.

21 minutes ago, Kada said:

"Ultra Vires also polled those students headed down to the Big Apple on the number of Hs they received in their first year. Thirteen of them responded: the average number of Hs is 7.7, with a range of 4 to 11. These figures are self-reported, so the usual caveats apply. (UVcounts one HH as two Hs and one P as zero Hs.)"

"This year, twenty eager students from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law are heading down to New York, where they will be introduced to Big Law, and be wined and dined, by some of the top law firms in the United States (see chart). Eight are JD/MBA students."

I think the Dean's list (depends a little bit on credit weighting, too) for 1L typically has a transcript with 8 or 9+ Hs, to give some context to the above. So apparently the mean UofT student heading south is not on the Dean's list although knowing the median or mode would probably be more helpful here.

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On 4/6/2021 at 1:14 PM, lawlawlaw777 said:

So out of 203 students at UofT, 23 of them landed great jobs in NYC. Basically means that the OP would need to be the very top of the class (like almost straight As) if she/he chooses to go from UofT to NYC biglaw right?

You're probably right that NYC big law want the top students from U of T, but your application of the numbers doesn't necessarily support your conclusion.

Out of 203 students, maybe you only have 50 who actually want to go to NYC. Suddenly it's 23/50 instead of 23/203.

 

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23 minutes ago, canuckfanatic said:

Out of 203 students, maybe you only have 50 who actually want to go to NYC. Suddenly it's 23/50 instead of 23/203.

 

While I don't disagree with the suggestion that not all top students want to go to NYC, I would say that a huge proportion of those who "don't want to go to NYC" don't want to go because they don't think they have the grades to get there. I say this as someone who "didn't want to go" after one semester, but then suddenly did once I got better grades in the next term. I know anecdotally that many people have similar stories. I would put the proportions more at 23/100 than I would 23/50.

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