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2L Winter (2021) Toronto Recruit PFOs/ITCs

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, spacelaw said:

I would be super interested in the reasons for the increase. This is a substantial amount. 

Some reasons I though of: (1) increased awareness that the legal professional needs to be more diverse, and UO tends to have a pretty diverse cohort from different backgrounds, educations, and interests; (2) more applications from UO students,  which has the largest class but historically a much lower number of students that apply to 2L Toronto than other Ontario schools; and (3) UO's grading policy during COVID somewhat inflated grades for UO Class of 2022, though I don't put much stock in this as I know UO informed all the firms about the change in grading policy.

It appears that this report has more employers listed than previous years. That might be why. I am not sure why they included CCParteners which is an employment boutique located in Brampton and Pallett Valo which is a firm located in Mississauga. Just an observation. Not sure if it's what made the difference however. 

Edited by OnlyResident
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18 hours ago, OnlyResident said:

It appears that this report has more employers listed than previous years. That might be why. I am not sure why they included CCParteners which is an employment boutique located in Brampton and Pallett Valo which is a firm located in Mississauga. Just an observation. Not sure if it's what made the difference however. 

The addition of MAG alone counted for a lot.

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20 hours ago, spacelaw said:

(3) UO's grading policy during COVID somewhat inflated grades for UO Class of 2022, though I don't put much stock in this as I know UO informed all the firms about the change in grading policy.

As a current UO 2022 student, I can confidently tell you the school's grading policy did not inflate our grades. If anything, students who opted to receive an alphanumeric grade didn't benefit from the slightly above B though lower than B+ curve. 

That said, I'm sure recruiters appreciated reviewing applicants who had letter grades for their 1L courses rather than just "S" or "P". So the grading policy may have benefited us from that aesthetic point of view. 

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1 minute ago, TrevorPhilips said:

As a current UO 2022 student, I can confidently tell you the school's grading policy did not inflate our grades. If anything, students who opted to receive an alphanumeric grade didn't benefit from the slightly above B though lower than B+ curve. 

That said, I'm sure recruiters appreciated reviewing applicants who had letter grades for their 1L courses rather than just "S" or "P". So the grading policy may have benefited us from that aesthetic point of view. 

How can you be so confident of that? uOttawa's grading scheme certainly seemed to give students a lot of options to hide their weaker marks.

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20 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

How can you be so confident of that? uOttawa's grading scheme certainly seemed to give students a lot of options to hide their weaker marks.

Oh, well that would be true. I kinda assumed recruiters would see through a blatant attempt to conceal crappy grades.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2021 at 2:35 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

Ultra Vires has released its 2L recruit report, although it unfortunately doesn't include 1L numbers. See pp. 14-15 here. The headline numbers are that hiring grew slightly (to a total of 478 students hired in the recruit), with the main beneficiary of that trend being Ottawa beneficiaries of that trend being Osgoode and U of T.

The number that jumped out to me immediately was that nearly a third of Gowlings' summer class will be NCA students this year.  

Other quick observations: Davies, Fasken, Lenczner, and Osler seem to have substantially increased the sizes of their articling classes from previous years, while no firms jumped out as significantly cutting their classes. That's particularly interesting considering some of the firms that maintained their hiring were also firms that cut articling student and associate compensation at the outset of the pandemic.

Davies and Osler's numbers are more or less consistent with the last two recruits.

At first glance, BJ, Faskens, Lenczner, and Stikeman have certainly increased their numbers by more than 5 additional hires compared to previous years.

I assume this is partially a result of firms having a great 2020 and an assumption of continued growth in the future. Any thoughts on how additional summer hires will effect hire-backs after articling?

Edited by underrated
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12 hours ago, TrevorPhilips said:

As a current UO 2022 student, I can confidently tell you the school's grading policy did not inflate our grades. If anything, students who opted to receive an alphanumeric grade didn't benefit from the slightly above B though lower than B+ curve. 

That said, I'm sure recruiters appreciated reviewing applicants who had letter grades for their 1L courses rather than just "S" or "P". So the grading policy may have benefited us from that aesthetic point of view. 

Nope, I know for a fact grades from the Class of 2022 are significantly higher for 1L than in previous years. You all had no curve pushing grades down, students were allowed to pick and chose which classes were pass fail a la carte, and students who had high grades at midterm were allowed to keep those. 

The Career and Professional Development Centre sent letters to all 2L recruit employers more or less describing what they did. I’ve personally seen the letter for the Ottawa recruit, but I’ve been told a similar letter was sent to employers in other recruits as well.

It’s not even a slight against UO. Like I said, I don’t think that was the reason numbers were improved anyway. Firms knew the numbers were inflated and still chose to hire more UO.

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10 hours ago, spacelaw said:

Nope, I know for a fact grades from the Class of 2022 are significantly higher for 1L than in previous years. You all had no curve pushing grades down, students were allowed to pick and chose which classes were pass fail a la carte, and students who had high grades at midterm were allowed to keep those. 

The Career and Professional Development Centre sent letters to all 2L recruit employers more or less describing what they did. I’ve personally seen the letter for the Ottawa recruit, but I’ve been told a similar letter was sent to employers in other recruits as well.

It’s not even a slight against UO. Like I said, I don’t think that was the reason numbers were improved anyway. Firms knew the numbers were inflated and still chose to hire more UO.

Interesting. Didn't Queens offer more or less the same grading scheme to their 1Ls when covid hit? 

Also, out of curiosity, how were you able to see this letter? Do you work in admin?

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1 hour ago, TrevorPhilips said:

Interesting. Didn't Queens offer more or less the same grading scheme to their 1Ls when covid hit? 

Also, out of curiosity, how were you able to see this letter? Do you work in admin?

We (Queen's) weren't able to opt for midterm marks and still had a curve.

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23 hours ago, underrated said:

Davies and Osler's numbers are more or less consistent with the last two recruits.

At first glance, BJ, Faskens, Lenczner, and Stikeman have certainly increased their numbers by more than 5 additional hires compared to previous years.

I assume this is partially a result of firms having a great 2020 and an assumption of continued growth in the future. Any thoughts on how additional summer hires will effect hire-backs after articling?

keep in mind 1L hiring this year was significantly lower. so that might also have played a role

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1 hour ago, quickcomments said:

keep in mind 1L hiring this year was significantly lower. so that might also have played a role

How do we know 1L hiring was "significantly lower" this year?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, quickcomments said:

keep in mind 1L hiring this year was significantly lower. so that might also have played a role

I don't believe the 4 firms I mentioned that increased hiring this year participate in the 1L recruit.

Edit: Faskens take a couple 1Ls in non-traditional law positions outside of the formal recruit, not sure if this is effected.

Edited by underrated

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, TrevorPhilips said:

Also, out of curiosity, how were you able to see this letter? Do you work in admin?

I work an employer that received the letter from the CPDC. I won't say what was exactly in the letter, but it did explain UO's COVID-19 grading scheme.

Edited by spacelaw
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