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2L Winter (2021) Toronto Recruit PFOs/ITCs

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Just now, chaboywb said:

Did they say that in writing? Because that's against the rules. I'm sure they also can't say it during the interview but you'd have no way of proving it.

No they said it in the interview! The exact words: "We are very impressed with your resume and now meeting you... looking forward to knowing you better and giving you a call on the call day" 

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1 hour ago, LegalEagle1997 said:

Let me preface this by saying that I was unsuccessful in my job hunt this time around. On that note: 

Was it anyone else’s experience that lawyers from some firms seemed somewhat disinterested? My interviews all went well, but any attempts I made to “reach out and get to know more people” afterwards typically went unanswered. I had one firm where the recruiting director did not get back to me in multiple emails. Perhaps it’s the online format, but this whole process was a major disappointment. Anyone else? 

The number one priority of every firm is to secure their top choices. Naturally, once a student falls out of that group, they become secondary. This may seem obvious, but rest assured any disinterest is not intentional. I know that the recruitment team at my firm has been putting in 25 hour days trying to evaluate candidates and doing the best they can to secure who they believe to be the best possible summer class. In a perfect world they'd have the resources to be keeping every candidate in the loop and responding to emails, but unfortunately that's not the way it works. 

For the record, as an associate host I've been trying to keep my candidates updated, but sometimes even I'm in the dark on where they stand and they best possible option is to keep any emails from the candidates unanswered as to not jeopardize the process.

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5 minutes ago, LegalEagle1997 said:

That sounds awful. I’m sorry you had to go through that! In any event, this process will make us stronger in the end :) 

yeah! I'm sure everything will workout at the end! 

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19 minutes ago, Jyeatbvg said:

The number one priority of every firm is to secure their top choices. Naturally, once a student falls out of that group, they become secondary. This may seem obvious, but rest assured any disinterest is not intentional. I know that the recruitment team at my firm has been putting in 25 hour days trying to evaluate candidates and doing the best they can to secure who they believe to be the best possible summer class. In a perfect world they'd have the resources to be keeping every candidate in the loop and responding to emails, but unfortunately that's not the way it works. 

For the record, as an associate host I've been trying to keep my candidates updated, but sometimes even I'm in the dark on where they stand and they best possible option is to keep any emails from the candidates unanswered as to not jeopardize the process.

I hear you, and I appreciate that the firms also have needs in this process. That’s a given. What’s upsetting, though, is that in determining their “top candidates”, some firms (not all) didn’t seem to give me as much of a chance, i.e., emailing the recruiter early on to see if there were more people I could speak with. I should mention that we were repeatedly encouraged to reach out and try to make connections at the firm. But in my experience, aside from the formal interviews, this was impossible. I do suspect things would be very different in an in-person setting. And of course, I also realize that this is new for everyone. I’m not holding anything personal against anyone or any firm! It’s important to discuss these things though, as I can tell you from experience that this virtual experience has brought out some terrible feelings in an indebted law student looking for work! Just my perspective, of course. 

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3 minutes ago, LegalEagle1997 said:

I hear you, and I appreciate that the firms also have needs in this process. That’s a given. What’s upsetting, though, is that in determining their “top candidates”, some firms (not all) didn’t seem to give me as much of a chance, i.e., emailing the recruiter early on to see if there were more people I could speak with. I should mention that we were repeatedly encouraged to reach out and try to make connections at the firm. But in my experience, aside from the formal interviews, this was impossible. I do suspect things would be very different in an in-person setting. And of course, I also realize that this is new for everyone. I’m not holding anything personal against anyone or any firm! It’s important to discuss these things though, as I can tell you from experience that this virtual experience has brought out some terrible feelings in an indebted law student looking for work! Just my perspective, of course. 

What i found that worked to network with people from the firm, was to reach out throughout the recruitment process. I've been talking with articling students and associates since Christmas. Leaving to make contact during their busiest week of recruitment, it is quite understandable that they wouldn't have the time to chat. 

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If we haven't been in consistent contact with a firm at this point, is it pretty unlikely that we'll receive a call? Was getting some positive vibes yesterday but things seem to have cooled off quickly

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13 minutes ago, BriScalabrineBurner said:

If we haven't been in consistent contact with a firm at this point, is it pretty unlikely that we'll receive a call? Was getting some positive vibes yesterday but things seem to have cooled off quickly

Like most questions, it depends on the firm. If you know that they were giving out third interviews today and you didn't get one then that's a pretty bad sign. But some firms seem to do just two or even one interview then decide who they're going to call. If you haven't, it probably wouldn't hurt to email and reiterate your interest/that they're your top choice before the blackout period.

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Do Goodmans and MT contact students after their 3rd in-firm interview? Do they send out PFOs after the third interview?

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2 minutes ago, HornOkPlease said:

Do Goodmans and MT contact students after their 3rd in-firm interview? Do they send out PFOs after the third interview?

You had a third interview with MT?

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24 minutes ago, HornOkPlease said:

Do Goodmans and MT contact students after their 3rd in-firm interview? Do they send out PFOs after the third interview?

Is MT McCarthy or Miller Thomson?
My McCarthy host told me student committee is meeting around 1 and we might get signals from them after that. 

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To those disheartened by the process and wishing they hadn’t done it, I truly understand what that feels like. But it’s a valuable experience regardless of how you were treated, and you will use what you learned to obtain other opportunities in the future.

The same thing happened to me when I did Toronto 2L recruit. I went in super confident, got OCIs for ~70% of the firms I applied to, and thought I was big business. OCI day goes great, or so I thought. I only convert on three of my interviews, a very disappointing result. And then when it gets to in-firm week, I get PFO’d after Day 1 by my top two firms. Of them had been in constant communication with me and super complimentary, which stung as I thought I was lead on. The other encouraged me to reach out only for my emails to be ignored (silent PFO). I ended up really loving the third firm, but my inexperience led me to give them the impression they were not my first choice and I did not receive an offer (it was strongly implied to me in a conversation with the firm post recruit that not first choicing them was why I did not receive an offer, which hurt but was fair).

For months after I was very bitter regarding my experience. I wished I had never done it and was very jaded about Toronto big law. But that experience taught me a lot about myself, my interests, and how to interview. I ended up in the practice area I had wanted coming into law school, and I don’t think I would have had that success without the painful failure of Toronto recruit. 
 

Use the failure as motivation, and learn from your experience. Toronto Recruit is an amazing learning experience, success or not, bad impression of big law or not.

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24 minutes ago, spacelaw said:

 I ended up in the practice area I had wanted coming into law school,

I gather this practice area is... space law? 
 

(I know this was a serious post but I couldn’t help it).

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Posted (edited)

The politics of this whole process is ridiculous, and this is only amplified because of it being completely virtual this year.

If its so important to declare first-choice firms then let us know. The LSO really needs to rework the logistics of the recruit and look towards maybe a rank/match system or something.

Edited by underrated
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3 minutes ago, underrated said:

The politics of this whole process is ridiculous, and this is only amplified because of it being completely virtual this year.

If its so important to declare first-choice firms then let us know. The LSO really needs to rework the logistics of the recruit and look towards maybe a rank/match system or something.

Completely agree with this. Left this process feeling confused, angry, drained and frustrated. 

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4 minutes ago, lawstudent799 said:

I assume the calls have been started...? 

Yes.

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20 minutes ago, HornOkPlease said:

Till when are the calls made?

Most calls go out by 5:05 in my experience. There are some that come later, especially for government or smaller firms, but those are definitely a minority

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popping back onto this thread to say that I struck out in the 2L recruit last cycle, for those of you who are having a rough time rn, my inbox is open if you want to talk to someone who has been through similar circumstances, or just want to get something off your chest to a total stranger who doesn't know you/promises not to judge. this year is already quite a bit more isolating than past years and i know it can be hard to reach out to the official, personally identifying channels of support. 

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