Moving out of province next year worth it?

[Frazer99 34]

Title says it all, but my two biggest choices right now are Queen's and Dalhousie, and if you asked me a couple of months ago I would've said that I'm leaning more towards Queen's, but now I'm not so sure it's worth it to move away from home (I'm from Halifax). I eventually want to end up in Ontario (and I know I can regardless of which school I go to), but with the pandemic I really don't know how to justify packing up and moving from NS to Kingston. I realize the aim is for everyone to be vaccinated by the end of next summer, but I doubt COVID will be gone just like that and I doubt even more that law schools will hold in-person classes next year. Given the current circumstances, what does everyone think are the odds classes would be in person next September, and is there any way to justify moving to another province?  

[Leafs2021 69]

Seeing as though most people will have gotten the vaccine by the end of the summer, I'd be shocked if things weren't more or less back to what they were pre-Covid. You may still have to wear a mask in certain places, and class sizes may vary, but I'm sure most of your classes will have an in-person lecture.

Based on what I've read from this forum, at least half of the students at most law schools ended up moving wherever they initially planned so I wouldn't be hesitant to move if I were you. I'm looking forward to moving out for law school too and the last thing that's gonna stop me is a slightly worse version of the flu

[Phaedrus 84]

I suspect we'll have a better idea in the late spring whether classes will be in-person (or not). Have you been accepted to both schools, or is this more of a hypothetical? In addition to attending school in the province where you want to practice, consider the added cost of relocation and living in Ontario. 

10 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

I'm looking forward to moving out for law school too and the last thing that's gonna stop me is a slightly worse version of the flu

I'd also refrain from adopting this sort of reasoning. For you the virus may present it self as slightly worse than the flu, but tell that to the 14,500+ Canadian families whose loved one won't be at the dinner table this Christmas, or the 320,000+ families south of the border. Fuck that logic.

[Leafs2021 69]

1 minute ago, Phaedrus said:

I suspect we'll have a better idea in the late spring whether classes will be in-person (or not). Have you been accepted to both schools, or is this more of a hypothetical? In addition to attending school in the province where you want to practice, consider the added cost of relocation and living in Ontario. 

I'd also refrain from adopting this sort of reasoning. For you the virus may present it self as slightly worse than the flu, but tell that to the 14,500+ Canadian families whose loved one won't be at the dinner table this Christmas, or the 320,000+ families south of the border. Fuck that logic.

It's a slightly worse version of the flu whether you choose to believe it or not. People die all the time and more often to various other ailments. Just because certain age groups are more at risk than others, and that very few people are dying doesn't take away from the fact that the virus is slightly worse than the common flu 

[Ryn 2785]

2 hours ago, Leafs2021 said:

Just because certain age groups are more at risk than others, and that very few people are dying doesn't take away from the fact that the virus is slightly worse than the common flu 

lol, no:

Quote

In-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza (15 104 [16·9%] of 89 530 vs 2640 [5·8%] of 45 819), with a relative risk of death of 2·9 (95% CI 2·8–3·0) and an age-standardised mortality ratio of 2.82 [...] In adolescents (11–17 years), the in-hospital mortality was ten-times higher for COVID-19 than for influenza (five [1·1% of 458 vs one [0·1%] of 804)

More than 3x the death rate, and 10x more for adolescents who were hospitalized. And that's just one study's information. There is plenty of information out there that shows, no, this is not just "slightly worse" than the common flu. Do you think our global reaction would be as significant as it is if it were just slightly worse than the common flu?

If you want a reason to not care about the significance of this pandemic and about your fellow humans dying, surely you can pick something more defensible than "slightly worse than the common flu". Something like, "people are dying? Who gives a shit. They're all old and feeble anyway." At least then you'd be honest about how you think.

[Leafs2021 69]

23 minutes ago, Ryn said:

lol, no:

More than 3x the death rate, and 10x more for adolescents who were hospitalized. And that's just one study's information. There is plenty of information out there that shows, no, this is not just "slightly worse" than the common flu. Do you think our global reaction would be as significant as it is if it were just slightly worse than the common flu?

If you want a reason to not care about the significance of this pandemic and about your fellow humans dying, surely you can pick something more defensible than "slightly worse than the common flu". Something like, "people are dying? Who gives a shit. They're all old and feeble anyway." At least then you'd be honest about how you think.

How many people do you think would be hospitalized if there was no vaccine for the common flu? The number of people that are dying has less to do with the severity of the virus and more to do with the fact that there isn't a cure/vaccine. Do you have any remote idea how fucked we would be if the virus was more severe? It's a blessing that the worst part of the virus is how quickly it spreads and not how quickly it could kill. That's why I stated that it's nothing more than a common flu to me and the majority of others. For what it's worth I've also had COVID, so I'm speaking from experience.

Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you on a forum lol. Your opinion differs from mine and that's fine, nothing you really say is going to shift my viewpoint so I'm going to tag out of the discussion right here

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Leafs2021

[Liavas 365]

4 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

How many people do you think would be hospitalized if there was no vaccine for the common flu? The number of people that are dying has less to do with the severity of the virus and more to do with the fact that there isn't a cure/vaccine. Do you have any remote idea how fucked we would be if the virus was more severe? It's a blessing that the worst part of the virus is how quickly it spreads and not how quickly it could kill. 

Assuming this is all true, by your own logic, until we have an effective vaccine coronavirus is still a major public health concern. We've had an influenza pandemic, and even though a vaccine was later developed, that doesn't mean that it wasn't a health threat before then. Also, just because something may not kill you doesn't mean there aren't long-lasting health effects. 

[MahmoudOneil 5]

11 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

How many people do you think would be hospitalized if there was no vaccine for the common flu? The number of people that are dying has less to do with the severity of the virus and more to do with the fact that there isn't a cure/vaccine. Do you have any remote idea how fucked we would be if the virus was more severe? It's a blessing that the worst part of the virus is how quickly it spreads and not how quickly it could kill. That's why I stated that it's nothing more than a common flu to me and the majority of others. For what it's worth I've also had COVID, so I'm speaking from experience.

Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you on a forum lol. Your opinion differs from mine and that's fine, nothing you really say is going to shift my viewpoint so I'm going to tag out of the discussion right here

 

I was positive this bloke was trolling, but no... may Allah protect us.

[Tagger 950]

16 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

That's why I stated that it's nothing more than a common flu to me and the majority of others. For what it's worth I've also had COVID, so I'm speaking from experience.

I've flown in a plane, so I'm an aerodynamics expert now. 

[Leafs2021 69]

4 minutes ago, Liavas said:

Assuming this is all true, by your own logic, until we have an effective vaccine coronavirus is still a major public health concern. We've had an influenza pandemic, and even though a vaccine was later developed, that doesn't mean that it wasn't a health threat before then. Also, just because something may not kill you doesn't mean there aren't long-lasting health effects. 

We already have an effective vaccine being administered. 

Not saying it's not a public health concern but by the time I hope to attend in 2021, things will have simmered down. Show me those long lasting health effects btw,.

[erinl2 4740]

20 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

We already have an effective vaccine being administered. 

Not saying it's not a public health concern but by the time I hope to attend in 2021, things will have simmered down. Show me those long lasting health effects btw,.

COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects - Mayo Clinic

You might want to read that. You might also benefit from visiting the Pandemic discussion in the OT forum. 

I will also include the usual reminder that posts here are forever, and the legal community is an amazingly small one. Think about what you post here. 

[Liavas 365]

4 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

We already have an effective vaccine being administered. 

Not saying it's not a public health concern but by the time I hope to attend in 2021, things will have simmered down. Show me those long lasting health effects btw,.

Yes, and with any luck, the vaccine schedule will go smoothly. But your original phrasing didn't suggest your travel plans have anything to do with whether the virus is still a threat:

3 hours ago, Leafs2021 said:

I'm looking forward to moving out for law school too and the last thing that's gonna stop me is a slightly worse version of the flu

erinl2 has already given you a link to some long-term health effects, but you have the internet just like the rest of us. I'm not going to write a thesis for something you can take a couple minutes of your time to look up.

By the way, if we're exchanging anecdotes: I haven't had COVID-19, but I have had the flu which I caught a few years back. I'm a young, healthy person with no related health concerns, and I coughed for six months. "Slightly worse" wouldn't make me feel any better about the pandemic even if it were true.

 

[lawstudent20202020 534]

46 minutes ago, Leafs2021 said:

How many people do you think would be hospitalized if there was no vaccine for the common flu? The number of people that are dying has less to do with the severity of the virus and more to do with the fact that there isn't a cure/vaccine. Do you have any remote idea how fucked we would be if the virus was more severe? It's a blessing that the worst part of the virus is how quickly it spreads and not how quickly it could kill. That's why I stated that it's nothing more than a common flu to me and the majority of others. For what it's worth I've also had COVID, so I'm speaking from experience.

Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you on a forum lol. Your opinion differs from mine and that's fine, nothing you really say is going to shift my viewpoint so I'm going to tag out of the discussion right here

 

Even assuming that your bullshit is true, (and it isn't) A virus that is 4 times as contagious but half as deadly is going too kill more People.

Also this isn't a matter of opinion it's fact. Just because you got a mild cases doesn't mean that literally hundreds of thousands of people haven't had it much worse than you. Your statements are impressively ignorant.

[navyblue11 215]

7 hours ago, Frazer99 said:

Title says it all, but my two biggest choices right now are Queen's and Dalhousie, and if you asked me a couple of months ago I would've said that I'm leaning more towards Queen's, but now I'm not so sure it's worth it to move away from home (I'm from Halifax). I eventually want to end up in Ontario (and I know I can regardless of which school I go to), but with the pandemic I really don't know how to justify packing up and moving from NS to Kingston. I realize the aim is for everyone to be vaccinated by the end of next summer, but I doubt COVID will be gone just like that and I doubt even more that law schools will hold in-person classes next year. Given the current circumstances, what does everyone think are the odds classes would be in person next September, and is there any way to justify moving to another province?  

To address your concerns outside of this debate, according to Dr. Fauci we may only need to achieve a 50% immunization rate to start to see numbers go down and about 75-85% to start achieving herd immunity (this is from an American context, keep in mind, but I still feel it's a good framework to look to for now as Canadians). Although hitting these percentages doesn't automatically mean it's safe to start weaning down restrictions, it is a useful timeline to refer to in the coming months, or at least until they learn more about what's to be expected here in Canada and given any new developments. 

As long as a good amount of people in Ontario take both doses of the vaccine and continue to follow precautions from here to the end of the summer, it may be possible for you to be able to come to Kingston safely, especially since schools outside the GTA seem to be getting hit less hard than those inside and generally only seem to stay in the "green" and "yellow" zones of restrictions (Western seems to be an exception to this though, idk about Queens).

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2020/12/15/22176555/anthony-fauci-covid-19-vaccine-herd-immunity-goal

Edited December 23, 2020 by navyblue11

[Ryn 2785]

7 hours ago, Leafs2021 said:

Your opinion differs from mine and that's fine, nothing you really say is going to shift my viewpoint so I'm going to tag out of the discussion right here

That's great and all, but an opinion is something that is subjective, like what your favourite Beatles song is or the best colour for a couch in a room with a stone floor. What isn't an opinion is how deadly COVID-19 is and how it's significantly more serious than the common flu. I know we live in the post-truth world where it's subjective that the plants in your yard need light to make energy (I mean, what do the plants do when it's dark?? C'mon sheeple!), but let's set aside for a moment how strongly a post-truther might emotionally react to being required to wear a mask and look at things objectively, shall we? I mean, you want to be a lawyer so you should start to exercise that subjective/objective muscle a bit.

The statistics and data don't bear your position out. Period. If there's nothing I can say that will shift your viewpoint, then consider that your viewpoint is based on rhetoric and/or a personal desire to minimize the impact of the pandemic based solely on subjective factors, and not based on the reality of the situation. If you are comfortable with that, then so be it, but then also try and think about why you really want us to treat COVID-19 like a bad flu. I think you'll find that most of those reasons are probably selfish, even if you are unwilling to admit it out loud.

I'm very happy for you that you've survived being infected by COVID. Consider yourself fortunate. Many people in your position either went through substantial medical problems (and thankfully survived, but not without harmful long-term effects) or died. It's a blessing that the virus isn't as deadly as, say, Ebola, but I don't think it's reasonable to start taking public health measures only when it starts getting that bad. I mean, 320,000 people have died in the US so far in a year. That's more than all of the Allied military deaths in WWII, all of the US deaths in Vietnam, the Korean War, and the Gulf War combined. And those were soldiers in circumstances where death is expected. In Canada, almost 15,000 people have died, and worldwide nearly 1.7 million have lost their lives.

This isn't the flu. It isn't a joke or opinion. It's serious. I get that you want to go back to eating at restaurants and watching movies or travelling. But this isn't just about you, or even half the population. It's about the 76 million people worldwide (so far) who have contracted the virus and may have to live with its long-term consequences (which are not at all trivial or flu-like) because you couldn't be assed to stay home or wear a mask.

So if the above facts doesn't change your position, then whatever. I can't help you. But you and people like you are a significant part of the problem, and the world is objectively worse off for it.

[TheMidnightOil 234]

10 hours ago, Leafs2021 said:

How many people do you think would be hospitalized if there was no vaccine for the common flu? The number of people that are dying has less to do with the severity of the virus and more to do with the fact that there isn't a cure/vaccine. Do you have any remote idea how fucked we would be if the virus was more severe? It's a blessing that the worst part of the virus is how quickly it spreads and not how quickly it could kill. That's why I stated that it's nothing more than a common flu to me and the majority of others. For what it's worth I've also had COVID, so I'm speaking from experience.

Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you on a forum lol. Your opinion differs from mine and that's fine, nothing you really say is going to shift my viewpoint so I'm going to tag out of the discussion right here

 

4) Online forum poster: People claim that the new disease going around is deadly and dangerous because it's killed over 14 000 people in the country. But it isn't dangerous -- there just isn't a vaccine for it.

Which of the following describes a flaw in the online forum poster's argument?

[JessePinkman 18]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:56 PM, Ryn said:

I mean, 320,000 people have died in the US so far in a year. That's more than all of the Allied military deaths in WWII, all of the US deaths in Vietnam, the Korean War, and the Gulf War combined. And those were soldiers in circumstances where death is expected. In Canada, almost 15,000 people have died, and worldwide nearly 1.7 million have lost their lives.

I agree with everything you said about Covid, but I'm a bit of a WWII nerd so I'd just like to point out that the Soviet Union lost over 8 million military personnel (a conservative estimate) in the war. I get that you were probably referring to the western Allies, but the sacrifice of our comrades in the east shouldn't be forgotten! 

[IvanSinclair 18]

On 12/23/2020 at 9:26 AM, Leafs2021 said:

It's a slightly worse version of the flu whether you choose to believe it or not. People die all the time and more often to various other ailments. Just because certain age groups are more at risk than others, and that very few people are dying doesn't take away from the fact that the virus is slightly worse than the common flu 

You're an idiot.

[Frazer99 34]

Well this quickly devolved into something quite different than I intended. I know better than to take COVID-invalidators seriously, so it appears I may have to hold off before making a reasonable decision about my moving plans  

[TheMidnightOil 234]

1 hour ago, Frazer99 said:

Well this quickly devolved into something quite different than I intended. I know better than to take COVID-invalidators seriously, so it appears I may have to hold off before making a reasonable decision about my moving plans  

I'm sorry for partially derailing your thread. I have some actual contributions, but keep in mind that I'm just an applicant, and most of my knowledge has been gleaned from obsessively searching this website's various topics.

It is, of course, very difficult to predict the extent to which Fall 2021 will be in-person. From my limited perspective, I anticipate at least some in-person components being involved, which is important for getting to know your law school peers. I think it would be safe to say that your second and third years of law school will be at least somewhat in-person, which is pretty useful for building your network.

The most repeated advice I've seen for the selection of a law school is, all else being equal, to pick one in the province in which you'd like to practice. You build connections in law school (and are yourself a connection to others) that you can leverage as you enter your actual career. I would say that -- if Ontario is definitely the province you'd want to practice in -- to go to an Ontario law school. I don't think the possibility of an online first year is enough reason to sway you away from Queens, especially as the situation (hopefully) gets better as you enter your second and third years. It isn't impossible to switch from NS to ON, but you might spare yourself some future hurdles by starting out in the province you'd like to end up in.

Again, to reiterate, I'm just a 0L. I'm only some guy on the internet with incomplete knowledge of your circumstances. And all of the information I've given you is second-to-third-hand at best, and rampant speculation at worst. But I hope it's something of a stepping stone for you to eventually make your decision.

Edited December 31, 2020 by TheMidnightOil