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Toronto seven sister firms - hours, salaries

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3 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

Just wait until you attend your Tory’s orientation week, followed by daily lunch in the McCarthys bistro at your law school,  followed by classes in the Fasken moot court room. That’s how bay law gets ya!

In all seriousness, “Gowlings” is featured so prominently at Osgoode I thought it referred to a historical legal figure. 

I had never met a lawyer before I started law school. The closest I was to a lawyer was a friend in third year. I was completely dumbfounded by all the big firms sponsoring all of the orientation events and classrooms, because I had never heard of any of them, never mind a "big firm" or "Bay Street". Or course I knew that there was a Bay Street, since I had worked at Bay and Bloor for a while, but I thought Bay Street was all about the banks, since it is their logos on all the towers.

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4 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

Just wait until you attend your Tory’s orientation week, followed by daily lunch in the McCarthys bistro at your law school,  followed by classes in the Fasken moot court room. That’s how bay law gets ya!

In all seriousness, “Gowlings” is featured so prominently at Osgoode I thought it referred to a historical legal figure. 

the memes don't stop. Would Morgan's qualify to be captured by bae law? 

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On a more serious note, for people considering which areas of law they'd like to pursue and why, think about the type of clients you want to serve and work you'd like to do. The clients you mostly service at large corporate firms are institutions and high-net-worth individuals. Money is the driving force of these firms. If your goal is to work for these types of clients and make money, then a Big law type career could be considered the ideal for you. For others who have different value systems or different career goals, there is absolutely nothing wrong with aiming for something else entirely. Students should not feel pressured to pursue careers making money for rich institutional and high-net-worth clients. They should not feel ostracized in law school because of their choice to pursue different career paths. There is an access to justice problem and real people need legal help too. Those real people could be your very own friends and family members. 

That's why this discussion is so important to have, and why there is a lot of back and forth on this topic. When you start putting Big law or any type of legal career on a pedestal, it creates hierarchy and unnecessary pressure and just adds on to an already stressful experience. Keep an open mind and don't be one of those people who spreads toxicity. Be kind and encouraging of your peers. Don't go flaunting around with terminology that you don't understand or will make someone feel inferior or worse off. Be that positive person in the room. Your law school peers will remember you for it and you'll be a better person and a better lawyer for it.  

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21 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

But you're wrong about this being a "societal perception," or being something that 0Ls are "exposed to prior to law school" (unless, as @Diplock alluded to, said 0Ls are part of legal dynasties already). This is not a societal thing; it's a law school/legal culture thing (which you sort of allude to after framing it more broadly, but you sandwich the post making it appear to extend beyond that)

(i) definitely not part of a legal dynasty (or related to any legal professionals for that matter) and; (ii) you caught on to my allusion...could have been phrased better.

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I was curious as what the typical RRSP contribution is like in big law? I know one of my friends company does 5% rrsp matching and another does 2%. I feel like that contributes to salary as well.

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10 hours ago, kindersuprise said:

I was curious as what the typical RRSP contribution is like in big law? I know one of my friends company does 5% rrsp matching and another does 2%. I feel like that contributes to salary as well.

Interesting. My international-sized firm doesn't do anything like this for lawyers, but I know they have something like that for staff. Lawyers are on their own for investing. 

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On 12/18/2020 at 6:56 PM, SS624 said:

Interesting. My international-sized firm doesn't do anything like this for lawyers, but I know they have something like that for staff. Lawyers are on their own for investing. 

That's the case for pretty much every large law firm. It doesn't make much sense for firms to contribute to an employee RRSP since (i) turnover is high and (ii) the objective of every associate "should" be to make partner, at which point any form of firm contribution towards an RRSP would be circular. 

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2 hours ago, mtler said:

That's the case for pretty much every large law firm. It doesn't make much sense for firms to contribute to an employee RRSP since (i) turnover is high and (ii) the objective of every associate "should" be to make partner, at which point any form of firm contribution towards an RRSP would be circular. 

Yup. I don’t know of any large firm (including the one I work at) that does RRSP matching for lawyers. Only for staff.

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On 12/18/2020 at 8:25 AM, kindersuprise said:

I was curious as what the typical RRSP contribution is like in big law? I know one of my friends company does 5% rrsp matching and another does 2%. I feel like that contributes to salary as well.

Unless you are working in government or at some in-house positions, retirement planning is likely going to be completely up to you.

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12 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

Unless you are working in government or at some in-house positions, retirement planning is likely going to be completely up to you.

I know this is a really broad and probably practice-type dependent question, but do you have any idea how much lawyers typically retire with/ what the general consensus is on how much you need to retire?

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32 minutes ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I know this is a really broad and probably practice-type dependent question, but do you have any idea how much lawyers typically retire with/ what the general consensus is on how much you need to retire?

Austin Powers Doctor Evil GIF

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2 hours ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I know this is a really broad and probably practice-type dependent question, but do you have any idea how much lawyers typically retire with/ what the general consensus is on how much you need to retire?

The amount you retire with varies greatly, but they say a good rule of thumb for retirement is to have enough saved up to be able to live off 2-4% of your total nest egg each year (i.e., 25-50 years of expenses, including emergency funds). 

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Many lawyers have the retirement plan of working until they drop; I have files with 75 or even 80 year old lawyers. 

Edited by ronlawyer1420

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8 minutes ago, ronlawyer1420 said:

Many lawyers have the retirement plan of working until they drop; I have files with 75 or even 80 year old lawyers. 

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason for this? I know that some doctors often work until they're quite old especially if they're specialists in a niche area etc. but is it the same for lawyers?

 

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A main motivator for going into law is that I’ll ostensibly be useful for as long as my mind is going. I don’t plan on ever fully retiring. 

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4 hours ago, undertheletter said:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason for this? I know that some doctors often work until they're quite old especially if they're specialists in a niche area etc. but is it the same for lawyers?

People get bored of retirement. Sure, it's fun for half a year. Then many people go insane. They go from working 40-60 hours a week and framing their life around the law to doing no law. It's a strange feeling with no sense of fulfilment for many people. The lawyer I was working with at my school clinic was retired for a few years and came back because of boredom. He enjoys what he does not far more than when he was retired.

Edited by georgecostanzajr
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I just hope that subconsciously thinking you're never going to retire doesn't cause people put to invest less because they think they'll be working indefinitely. 

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Just to present a different view. Many lawyers retire and are very happy in retirement. They find more time to participate in their communities, continue hobbies they've loved throughout their careers, serve on volunteer boards, travel, and enjoy more time with their families. 

And, yes, it's true that many employers/firms will require retirement at a certain age. Planning for this should begin early in your career.

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