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GreysAnatomy

Toronto seven sister firms - hours, salaries

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@healthlaw @Aton that makes perfect sense. Culture starts at the top and impacts everything in the workplace, so if partners/management expects quick turnarounds and responsiveness even after "normal" work hours, I can see how that is stressful. 

 

@wakawaka  Based on what I read/have been told, it seems like commercial real estate/tax planning/commercial litigation on large cases have ~relatively~ more predictable hours than M&A/bankruptcy litigation. Though I also would suspect that even in the same practice area, management expectations, client expectations, and what the specific case/deal demands are still relevant factors. 

I'm getting the feeling that at the end of the day, even in markets outside of Bay/M&A work, there are so many factors outside of one's control that will dictate work predictability/work-life integration. 

Thank you all for the insights! 

Edited by Twenty

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2 hours ago, Twenty said:

Culture starts at the top and impacts everything in the workplace, so if partners/management expects quick turnarounds and responsiveness even after "normal" work hours, I can see how that is stressful. 

Very, very accurate. We turn things around really quick at my firm, but that happens because we're efficient. After normal work hours, we are off the clock for the most part, because my boss sees that as important. So much so that urgent requests requiring work into the night are billed at roughly double the rate. 

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2 hours ago, whoknows said:

Very, very accurate. We turn things around really quick at my firm, but that happens because we're efficient. After normal work hours, we are off the clock for the most part, because my boss sees that as important. So much so that urgent requests requiring work into the night are billed at roughly double the rate. 

I'm very jelous.

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1 hour ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I'm very jelous.

Wait until I tell you that I also don't have a target. 

When I said I was happy I got this job, I meant it. 

(Note: this doesn't mean I don't have to meet performance metrics, they just aren't based on hours billed)

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12 minutes ago, whoknows said:

Wait until I tell you that I also don't have a target. 

When I said I was happy I got this job, I meant it. 

(Note: this doesn't mean I don't have to meet performance metrics, they just aren't based on hours billed)

Did you leave law or something? Jeez.

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51 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Did you leave law or something? Jeez.

Found a firm that values its people and is super nimble/pliable. Got extremely lucky and fell backwards into it. These jobs exist, they're just tough to find. 

I have stresses day to day, and it's not like it's all rainbows and sunshine all the time, but it's not created unnecessarily, which is all that really matters to me. 

I have zero problem working late or on a weekend because it's urgent and pressing and needs to get done now - shit happens. I do get annoyed when we've "own goaled" ourselves into the situation.

Edited by whoknows
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3 minutes ago, whoknows said:

Found a firm that values its people and is super nimble/pliable. Got extremely lucky and fell backwards into it. These jobs exist, they're just tough to find. 

I have stresses day to day, and it's not like it's all rainbows and sunshine all the time, but it's not created unnecessarily, which is all that really matters to me. 

I have zero problem working late or on a weekend because it's urgent and pressing and needs to get done now - shit happens. I do get annoyed when we've "own goaled" ourselves into the situation.

Well, congrats :)

hopefully I'll be patient enough while unemployed in the summer to find a job I love too.

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Hi friends, its me OP. This thread has just gotten out of control. It's clear that the discussion shouldnt be a fight about who the seven sisters are - instead, I was looking for an insight into daily life at the firms I listed. If anyone still has input on this, I'd appreciate it

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5 minutes ago, GreysAnatomy said:

Hi friends, its me OP. This thread has just gotten out of control. It's clear that the discussion shouldnt be a fight about who the seven sisters are - instead, I was looking for an insight into daily life at the firms I listed. If anyone still has input on this, I'd appreciate it

You must be new here. 

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12 minutes ago, GreysAnatomy said:

Hi friends, its me OP. This thread has just gotten out of control. It's clear that the discussion shouldnt be a fight about who the seven sisters are - instead, I was looking for an insight into daily life at the firms I listed. If anyone still has input on this, I'd appreciate it

Here's the only answer that's really relevant. Based on everything you've stated about where you are right now, and the kind of candidate you would be on the job market, moving from your current position to any associate position at any "big law" firm in Toronto is a moon shot. That isn't to say it's impossible, necessarily, but it would be a hell of an opportunity to come your way (assuming it's a thing you want at all) and you'd be advised to grab any such opportunity with both hands the second it's in your grasp and not let go.

Any discussion comparing among these firms, as a direct response to your situation, requires buying into the idea that somehow you might be in a position of choosing from among them. That's like asking, as a marginal, undrafted rookie which professional sports team you should want to play for. It's a stupid, fundamentally delusional question. Because the only real answer is "any damn team that will have you."

Might as well leave everyone to the conversation this has turned into, now. Because whether anyone intended it or not, the debate about your terminology was actually a nice distraction from simply pointing out you're unlikely to be a serious candidate at any of these firms, and if any offers you a job at all, that's the job you take.

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Well if that’s the case, is there a difference between big law and bay law? Is big law an umbrella term and bay is a specific group of corporate law firms on a particular street in Toronto? And is big law only corporate/finance type law? Is there criminal or family big law?

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17 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

Well if that’s the case, is there a difference between big law and bay law? Is big law an umbrella term and bay is a specific group of corporate law firms on a particular street in Toronto? And is big law only corporate/finance type law? Is there criminal or family big law?

Pretty sure that 'big law' refers generally to large corporate firms...and since most of these firms are located in and around the Bay St. area, it often maps onto Bay St. law firms or 'Bay St. law'.

Presumably, if a 'big law' firm on Bay opened a location in a suburb it would still be considered 'big law'...but tbh i've never heard the term 'Bay law'...

If you meant 'seven sisters' then aside from what's been said, there's a wiki page (lol): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters_(law_firms)

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8 minutes ago, undertheletter said:

tbh i've never heard the term 'Bay law'...

 

I've heard the term in the context of "working as a bay street lawyer". So a big firm, in another major city would not be considered big law? Basically I'm wondering if I can work in 'big law' outside of Toronto, and if that would have a different meaning to working in 'big law' or 'on bay st' in toronto specifically. 

Edited by legallybrunette3
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5 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

I've heard the term in the context of "working as a bay street lawyer". So a big firm, in another major city would not be considered big law?

Did you even read the post you're responding to?

I vaguely recall you mentioning struggling with the LSAT and now I can see why.

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8 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

I've heard the term in the context of "working on bay street". So a big firm, in another major city would not be considered big law?

Big Law exists outside of Toronto. So if you work at the [insert non-Toronto, major city] office of [insert national/international firm here], that is still considered Big Law. I have never heard anyone use the term Bay Law. 

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Just now, CleanHands said:

Did you even read the post you're responding to?

I vaguely recall you mentioning struggling with the LSAT and now I can see why.

it's ok not to respond to things or make 'confused' reaction to all of my posts! You're not required to bud :)

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9 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

I've heard the term in the context of "working on bay street". So a big firm, in another major city would not be considered big law?

I said that most firms are located in the Bay St. area (in Canada at least). So location is irrelevant. If it's a big corporate firm (in Toronto, Montreal, New York etc.) it's 'big law'.

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7 minutes ago, Twenty said:

I have never heard anyone use the term Bay Law. 

If I used the term 'Bay street law' would it be equally as non-sensical? How would I refer to a lawyer working at one of these:

https://www.osler.com/en/about-us/press-room/2020/bay-street-law-firms-bulk-up-on-restructuring-partners-as-more-covid-19-insolvencies-expected-the

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5 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

If I used the term 'Bay street law' would it be equally as non-sensical? How would I refer to a lawyer working at one of these:

https://www.osler.com/en/about-us/press-room/2020/bay-street-law-firms-bulk-up-on-restructuring-partners-as-more-covid-19-insolvencies-expected-the

Does it matter? Just don't coin the term 'bay law' or else you'll start another war as seen above.

Most (non-law) people probably won't know what 'big law' is anyway, so the colloquial phrase would be 'bay street lawyer' but not something...novel...like 'bay lawyer' or 'bay law'.

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