Jump to content
GreysAnatomy

Toronto seven sister firms - hours, salaries

Recommended Posts

Hi!,

I am thinking of applying to work at one of the seven sisters in commercial litigation, and move from a much smaller firm. Can anyone provide any insight into the hours that young associates currently fill at Fasken, BLG, Dentons, and Torys (what time do you guys generally log on and log off/day )? Also, I tried finding the salaries by year for these firms, but havent been able to so if anyone could post the links to previous discussions on this or contribute, I'd appreciate it!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 7 Sisters moniker makes me cringe but the only one you've listed that is a so-called 7 Sister is Torys.

Prepare to work long hours. How it compares with your current small firm will depend on what your small firm is like. Some work longer hours than others.

  • Like 5
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will also need to specify city (though the reference to seven sisters, mistaken or otherwise, will probably lead to the assumption that this is TO.)

Also, why those four firms in particular?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s an oddly specific list. But maybe they’ve posted jobs or something.

I didn’t look in this thread, but the title seems promising: 

 

Edited by easttowest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First year associate salary is generally $110K at  seven sister firms (but I agree with @erinl2 the title is basically meaningless - although I note that none of them decreased salary during the pandemic so... there is that). The exception is Davies which I think starts at $130K (they recently had a salary bump).

Prepare to work a lot of hours. I can't give you a ball park but it's likely something like 9am - 10 or 11 pm. There may be some "emergency" situations or if you're on a where  you will be working to the wee hours of the morning. 

Edited by TheScientist101
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll always find it weird that this board has such a visceral reaction to the "seven sisters" moniker. In my experience clients use that term. Lawyers use that term. It is what it is. Although not a term you normally hear in reference to litigation.

Also trying not to dunk further but going 1/4 out of a list of 7 is admittedly pretty funny. I think others have generally answered the OP's questions so not much for me to add there.

  • Like 5
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your questions look like the OP, you don't have to worry about the hours or salary at a big full sized downtown firm.

There's no chance you "can't find" such readily available information. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, bernard said:

I'll always find it weird that this board has such a visceral reaction to the "seven sisters" moniker. In my experience clients use that term. Lawyers use that term. It is what it is. Although not a term you normally hear in reference to litigation.

Also trying not to dunk further but going 1/4 out of a list of 7 is admittedly pretty funny. I think others have generally answered the OP's questions so not much for me to add there.

I think that's why people have a visceral reaction... no one seems to know which firms are in the 7 and it seems like there's plenty of very comparable firms not in the 7 (such as the ones OP listed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Starling said:

I think that's why people have a visceral reaction... no one seems to know which firms are in the 7 and it seems like there's plenty of very comparable firms not in the 7 (such as the ones OP listed).

comparable? BLG, Dentons cut salary :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheScientist101 said:

Prepare to work a lot of hours. I can't give you a ball park but it's likely something like 9am - 10 or 11 pm. 

Just want to say that, in my experience, working 9 am to 10 or 11 pm every day is quite above average.

Edited by CoffeeandLaw
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CoffeeandLaw said:

Just want to say that, in my experience, working 9 am to 10 or 11 pm every day is quite above average.

Yeah, I should have qualified - these types of hours should not be every day, but during "busy periods" (i.e) trial or a closing, I would expect that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Starling said:

I think that's why people have a visceral reaction... no one seems to know which firms are in the 7 and it seems like there's plenty of very comparable firms not in the 7 (such as the ones OP listed).

If that were true, then why is everyone so quick to point out the OP got the list wrong.

I'm not looking to get into some prestige argument. But I don't get the Sisyphean battle this board wages against a frequently used term.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bernard said:

If that were true, then why is everyone so quick to point out the OP got the list wrong.

That's precisely why people pointed out that OP got the list wrong - to show how absurd it is that they included the term 7 sisters in their post when clearly, it means nothing to them, as 75% of the firms they listed are not members.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, bernard said:

If that were true, then why is everyone so quick to point out the OP got the list wrong.

I'm not looking to get into some prestige argument. But I don't get the Sisyphean battle this board wages against a frequently used term.

Oh I don't even work in Toronto so I would be the first to say I can't name a single one of the Seven Sisters, nor do I know/care about the prestige of Toronto firms enough to have a personal opinion on whether the distinction is meaningful. That just seems to be the basis of why people get upset about the term. 🤷‍♀️

Edited by Starling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do people in practice still use this moniker where it has any tangible meaning? There are many notable firms (including international firms) not in there - Fasken, BLG, Norton Rose, DLA Piper, Baker McKenzie, Bennett Jones, Gowlings, McMillan, Miller Thomson, Weirfoulds, etc. Plenty of topnotch boutiques too like Paliare Roland and Lenczner Slaught. 

I've only heard law students and junior associates use the term and it's usually when they're stroking each other off - most have little clue as to the actual differences between them. I would think that the reputation of the practice group and your supervising lawyers would matter a lot more than which firm you ended up at. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, TheScientist101 said:

Yeah, I should have qualified - these types of hours should not be every day, but during "busy periods" (i.e) trial or a closing, I would expect that. 

Many lawyers, especially juniors, would work that sort of schedule IN A TRIAL. Regardless of size of firm, or area of law for that matter. 
 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

Many lawyers, especially juniors, would work that sort of schedule IN A TRIAL. Regardless of size of firm, or area of law for that matter. 
 

 

I've done that in preparing pleadings time. That's not surprising in the slightest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CoffeeandLaw said:

That's precisely why people pointed out that OP got the list wrong - to show how absurd it is that they included the term 7 sisters in their post when clearly, it means nothing to them, as 75% of the firms they listed are not members.

Also, OP is asking about commercial litigation when the term was expressly invented to denote the top firms in M&A in the early 2000s. The top commercial litigation firms in 2020 are not the same as the top M&A firms in 2004.

But OP, practicing commercial litigation at any Bay St firm is likely to be pretty similar in terms of hours. You will work a lot, and how many exactly depends on the people you work with, your time management skills, and your willingness to say no to people. And a little luck in most years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, GreysAnatomy said:

dentons and BLG cut salary? to how much?

It was likely a COVID cut. A few firms did this. Some have restored the salary and paid back pay. Other firms laid lawyers off, sometimes permanently.

Edited by easttowest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...