Advice About a Mark and Its Impact on 1L Summer Postitions

[IAmTheLawgic 60]

Hey all, 

Wanted to solicit a bit of advice here for those who have gone through the 1L summer process. We got information recently about summer postings in TO and elsewhere, and in the email it said that on top of the transcript (which will only have one grade on it) we should be prepared to submit a list of marks received by class to date. No general problem with that, they have been solid, if few (not many graded things yet). 

However, in one class I screwed up. I had written down the assignment (worth a mere 5%) was due at 10pm. Turns out, it was due earlier that day and I lost 10% of the grade for being late when I submitted it. I've beaten myself up over this for a while, and am quite pissed off I did that, but I did, and I can't change it now. Totally take responsibility for that mistake. When I saw that email about providing a list of marks my heart kind of sank a bit, because one of the only ones I'll have to list on that supplementary list now went from pretty good to, uh... not great. 

Having never engaged with a legal employer, I guess my question is should I note this is any way on the document I submit? Or just list it and let the cards fall where they may. I hope that it alone won't preclude me from any success this summer, but if it does so be it I suppose. I don't want to turn it into a big thing and I realize that I can totally recover the grade for the class overall -- there's literally 95% still to come, but I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts about addressing it or if it's going to really come back to bite me vis a vis this summer. 

Thanks!

 

[elcs 52]

0L answering but I just can’t imagine how “oopsie daise, that one homework under that one class didn’t get a good enough grade cuz I remembered the deadline incorrectly. Otherwise, I would have totally aced it!” would do anyone any good.

[IAmTheLawgic 60]

Yeah I can't imagine so either. Just was frustrated with myself and wanted to put it out there I guess.

[erinl2 4678]

Noting it would likely be more of a negative than the grade itself. It's 10% on one assignment. In my opinion, the fact that you didn't follow instructions is worse than a grade that's 10% below what you hoped it would be. 

[BringBackCrunchBerries 1088]

Yeah, do not draw attention to it at all. Most of these employers will be turned off by the missed deadline more than the zero.

[chaboywb 747]

Unfortunately, the 1L summer recruit is very heavily focused on a very narrow subset of your grades, and minor hiccups seem magnified. I don't think an explanation will help and you may be out of luck (though obviously still apply). At the end of the day, keep in mind that very few students are successful in the 1L recruit.

[IAmTheLawgic 60]

Thanks guys. Here's hoping!  

[hmyo 224]

1L recruit is looking for MBAs or people with Phd's or 4.0 undergrad gpas anyway. There's like what? 10 people~ hired in the 1L Toronto recruit? Honestly, even if you handed in your assignment on time, its still a very low chance to get recruited in 1L. Plus,  if you're graded on a curve on a 5% assignment, it's all a wash anyway

[IAmTheLawgic 60]

Thanks again guys. Probably was a dumb question in the first place, but I was mad at myself and probably overthought it a bit. Thanks for the sober comments... helps frame everything. Much appreciated. Time to kill midterms -- we keep on trucking.

Edited December 4, 2020 by IAmTheLawgic
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[JusticeLordDenning 49]

1L recruit is for the unicorns. Western/Queens/Osgoode don't do as well in the 1L recruit compared to UfT. I'm planning on using it as a learning experience to improve my application materials for 2L. 

https://ultravires.ca/2020/10/toronto-summer-2020-1l-recruitment-results/ 

Edited December 4, 2020 by JusticeLordDenning

[easttowest 1600]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:48 PM, hmyo said:

1L recruit is looking for MBAs or people with Phd's or 4.0 undergrad gpas anyway. There's like what? 10 people~ hired in the 1L Toronto recruit? Honestly, even if you handed in your assignment on time, its still a very low chance to get recruited in 1L. Plus,  if you're graded on a curve on a 5% assignment, it's all a wash anyway

I think Dentons might actually being doing a thing where they hire heavily out of 1L. I think they had a 8-person 2020 summer class that was only returning 1Ls!

[hmyo 224]

13 hours ago, easttowest said:

I think Dentons might actually being doing a thing where they hire heavily out of 1L. I think they had a 8-person 2020 summer class that was only returning 1Ls!

yeah that's fair, but if OP is literally submitting one 5% assignment as law school achievement, he/she/they is simply not a competitive applicant for the 1L recruit, even if the 5% assignment was an A+. 

[IAmTheLawgic 60]

3 hours ago, hmyo said:

yeah that's fair, but if OP is literally submitting one 5% assignment as law school achievement, he/she/they is simply not a competitive applicant for the 1L recruit, even if the 5% assignment was an A+. 

To be fair its not just one assignment. There's other grades too, and they're solid enough. Plus by the time applications are due midterm marks and term participation will be in as well. 

I very well may not be competitive, but there's more than one thing!

[Notnotadog 265]

Last year I had some friends that got 1L summer positions that didn’t have top grades. They were surely in the top 30-40% or so, but not right at the top. I do think that they were outliers, however. I think that, for most 1L recruit firms, very high grades are necessary to get to the interview stage. I’m not sure how much of an effect then they have after you’ve gotten there.

[TheBanhMiBoy 41]

Apologies for my ignorance on this subject, but what do 1Ls typically do over the summer then?

[Policywonk 58]

1Ls typically work non legal-summer jobs (e.g, summer camp counsellor, waitressing, retail, etc.) 

[LeoandCharlie 295]

fyi there's firms outside of Toronto that hire a lot of 1L students...unless you're sold on wanting to work in Toronto don't buy into the school's career service department hyper fixation on the Toronto market.

[Notnotadog 265]

Many people I knew worked as research assistants to professors, in legal clinics, and many at various non-profits doing fellowships. Some did jobs that they had pre-law school and others did whatever earned $$$ to pay tuition.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Notnotadog

[lewcifer 145]

On 12/6/2020 at 7:20 AM, easttowest said:

I think Dentons might actually being doing a thing where they hire heavily out of 1L. I think they had a 8-person 2020 summer class that was only returning 1Ls!

It's my understanding that Dentons only has a 1L recruit. In their NALP page, in the Recruitment & Hiring tab under "Hiring Criteria" it says they don't participate in the 2L recruit. Under "Articling Students" it says they don't anticipate hiring for the 2021 articling year. It does say under "Student Information Hiring Grid" that they hire 2Ls, but I'd venture to guess that this number refers to hirebacks, since as you mentioned you can see on their website that all of their 2L students were returning 1Ls and NALP lists 8 as having been hired. This might change if they get a batch of 1L students who they don't hire back for 2L summer or for articling for whatever reason and they have a bunch of empty spots, but it seems like consistently (at least since the 2019 summer recruit) you need to be hired in 1L to be a student at Dentons Toronto.

4 hours ago, TheBanhMiBoy said:

Apologies for my ignorance on this subject, but what do 1Ls typically do over the summer then?

Non-legal jobs, research assistant positions, legal clinic jobs, working with smaller firms/sole practitioners that don't participate in the formal recruit. Some organizations with in-house counsel recruit 1L students for summer as well (off the top of my mind, Metrolinx, First Capital, NHLPA - some of these were cancelled last year because of the pandemic). I had an internship through my law school's internship program, if I'm not mistaken most law schools have similar summer internship programs. You can do pretty much whatever you want in 1L summer, no one expects you to have a firm job or any legal experience. Great if you can or want to get it, no big deal if you don't.

[JusticeLordDenning 49]

7 hours ago, LeoandCharlie said:

fyi there's firms outside of Toronto that hire a lot of 1L students...unless you're sold on wanting to work in Toronto don't buy into the school's career service department hyper fixation on the Toronto market.

How do you find the firms in the GTA that hire 1L summer students? I've been looking (will look at this further after exam season) but can't seem to find a lot. Do they post on job portals? Do you cold email? Big law is easy to apply to, everything is in one spot.       

Edited December 7, 2020 by JusticeLordDenning