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  • Recent Posts

    • Pizzaandpasta
      Thank you for that clarification! I was trying to find posts on here on information about any of the firms I listed above regarding their firm culture, the people that work there and the general vibe of the firm but I didn’t see much - is there a post or page on here that you’re aware of that has details like these noted down from people’s experiences with the firm? Of course I could go the other route and find out for myself by reaching out to people at these firms, but just wanted to have a general idea of what each of them are like. 
    • Conge
      I’ll add that I also wanted to do criminal law when I went to law school (spoiler: I got a taste of it and really did not like it). “International law” is a vague category and, to be blunt, it’s impossible to know what you actually mean by that.  All to say, I wouldn’t advise that someone pick a law school because they have a vague notion of what kind of law they want to do. You don’t even know how broad your options will be (nor should you - law school is the start of the journey of figuring that out, at least it was for me). To answer the question directly: go to Dal    
    • CB2021
      I think this might be partially the result of the nature and size of the Canadian legal market (and economy). Just as the law schools down in the US, the firms there seem to be much more stratified as well. Blue chip or institutional clients seem to always give their most important (or even most of their) work to V10-20 firms (or firms that specialize in specific industries and sectors, e.g. Cooley, Fenwick, etc. for tech and life science). They rarely ventured out of those firms, except maybe during the deal boom a few years back where there was just so much work to go around and the lower ranked firms were able to offer lower rates for value. Based on what I have heard from my mentors down in NY, there since has been some flight to quality phenomenon going on, where big clients (and there are many many more of those in the US) are again only going to the top firms for their legal needs despite the recent rate hikes at the top firms.  The sisters obviously also dominate the top end of the Canadian market, but because the top end of the market is SO MUCH SMALLER (in terms of deal size and deal volume) clients just have much more bargaining power here. While the upper MM and MM are bigger, the number of firms is also fairly large - so you have way too many players competing for a pie that does not seem to be getting larger, at least not at the rate that is comparable to that of the US market. Another implication of this, imo, is that Canadian lawyers and firms have fewer opportunities to specialize and differentiate themselves from their competitors. One notable exception to this is the Emerging and High Growth group at Osler - Chad Bayne and his team have built up the reputation and expertise that Osler can really say that they have differentiated themselves from the other sister firms in this segment of the market. 
    • leftbehindjd
      LLM programs, at least top ones, prefer work experience over grades. Law school grades are the least important factor. Things like personal statements and career plans are weighed the most. Having said that I can't think of any scenario where an LLM is justified unless you can do it part-time for cheap while working or paid for by someone else (full ride scholarship or employer paid). Can you imagine shelling over 100k USD for a HLS LLM just to be unemployed in Canada or work the same 100k CAD job as before the LLM.
    • CB2021
      Curious what the other countries were. You would think that Canadian rates would only be below rates in NY, London, and some other leading European markets. 
    • leftbehindjd
      Yes, many. I've worked in several roles.  Some examples: Legal Compliance Specialist or similar JD Advantage positions (some require a JD and some prefer a JD). The Legal Compliance Specialist at Amazon pays about 140k USD and that was low ball in the USA during 2021. There are many others. And if you want to practice in the USA, being called in Canada means absolutely nothing other than the work experience part. You can write the 2 day bar exam in Massachusetts directly for example, no articling or call required from Canada. In Canada it could be some corporate roles but government comes to mind such as the many many different investigator, policy, manager positions. In some branches like human rights and employment standards like a quarter of the officers are ex lawyers or went to law school. The pay difference between a lawyer position and non lawyer position in government only shows up late career and it's marginal for early and mid career depending on the level of the position. To be clear, there are very few lawyer positions in government, but many regular positions which are staffed by law school grads or non practicing lawyers. As for the cost, law school in Canada is pretty cheap. You can do any program and it would cost just as much. Try doing any degree in the USA and it will cost way, way more. I don't see cost in Canada being an issue at all unless you're going to an overpriced Ontario school. The real cost is the opportunity cost salary wise of going to school or doing underpaid articling placements.  I've talked to lots of people who regretted articling or grinding long hours at firms when they now have a chill policy analyst or similar job in government which only pays slightly less with very good hours and chill work etc.; they all say they wished they would have joined government directly from law school. Some do exactly that. The ones in big law firms all seem to have solemn funeral black suit pictures and seem to always be looking for a way out to in house or government. For people choosing an alternate non practicing JD career, the last thing they are looking for is anything law firm or law school related. They usually aim for government, regulator, tech firm., etc.
    • C_Terror
      Back when I was a first year, I was involved in a cross border PE deal (~$500M CAD) involving a Canadian target. Naturally, Canadian lawyers were working round the clock and advanced most of the paper + SPA. Easily two times the amount of Canadian lawyers vs US ones. Near Closing, funds flow showed our bill at $500K CAD, while our US counterpart's (a V20) bill was $3M CAD. Their second year's (aka Canadian first year) rate was more than what our M&A partner was billing.  The going rate now for a mid level M&A attorney in NYC is something like $1200-$1400 USD an hour. Canadian firms just can't compete. Also as a side observation, it's interesting how large Canadian clients have no issue paying huge NYC rates for for US work but will haggle down Bay Street rates for substantially the same work, but in Canada.
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