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AlanaJoy

Law school at 42? Line of credit?

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35 minutes ago, Luckycharm said:

I echo what you are saying. I don't think it is possible to work till 80 years old.

Agreed. Definitely not full time, you might be able to do some consulting/teaching but that kind of thing requires a stable financial cushion to take it easy mentally and physically. 

Edited by legallybrunette3

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27 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

Agreed. Definitely not full time, you might be able to do some consulting/teaching but that kind of thing requires a stable financial cushion to take it easy mentally and physically. 

Just to clarify my point, I wasn't talking about the ability to do it mentally and physically. I meant that for some employers, no one is going to be able to continue working past a certain age (which is less than 80). 

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6 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

Just to clarify my point, I wasn't talking about the ability to do it mentally and physically. I meant that for some employers, no one is going to be able to continue working past a certain age (which is less than 80). 

yes that too, I didn't think of that. I'm not familiar with the standards on that kind of stuff so I won't comment. I wouldn't be surprised if they change though, people are working later and later, and looking at the presidential run this year who knows what will change by then. But again, definitely not knowledgeable in that area so just thinking out loud here. 

Edited by legallybrunette3

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8 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

yes that too, I didn't think of that. I'm not familiar with the standards on that kind of stuff so I won't comment. I wouldn't be surprised if they change though, people are working later and later, and looking at the presidential run this year who knows what will change by then. But again, definitely not knowledgeable in that area so just thinking out loud here. 

you mean the one who is running for Senate and against George? 

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16 minutes ago, Luckycharm said:

you mean the one who is running for Senate and against George? 

😂... I didn't say it was good, just that it's happening. Just look at the lame duck's head of legal, demonstrating that you can continue to practice despite old age or lack of evidence. 

Edited by legallybrunette3
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40 in 3L. 
 

Nothing revolutionary to add but I thought two things were worth saying. 
 

1 - there was a comment earlier about the social ostracization of mature students: this has been the opposite of my experience. I think I am fairly well known (and not horribly disliked, I hope) at my school. I certainly have made great friendships with other mature students (and now act as a mentor to many of them) but I have also found some (hopefully) lifelong friends among my younger peers. They are sharp, accomplished, and often just as nervous as I am about the various law school hurdles that come along. Don’t shut yourself off to those friendships as you will be worse off for it (not to mention the field is smaller than you think and these will be your peers out there as well).

 

2 - All things being equal, you have a number of advantages that make you a very appealing candidate to the market. A lot of the recruitment/OCI/regular hiring process is a soft assessment - and you most likely have many experiences. Additionally you, hopefully, will at least be able to parrot confidence such that it will be more convincing than other candidates. Many of the mature students I know have done very well for themselves as far as securing summer jobs and articles early on. Long story short - you are definitely not worse off (at least in the aggregate).

 

I am in my phone and watching my son atm so please forgive any typos etc - I will not be editing this.

 

edit: even though I said I wouldn’t, I couldn’t help myself 

Edited by Gandalf
2 words, a sentence, and an Oxford comma
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There has been some really good advice here. One thing you should also consider is how comfortable you are taking direction from people who are much younger than you are.

I started law school "late" (in the 30-35 range).  I do regret not getting into the game earlier because of the sheer earning power I lost (I know eventually it will all level out, but there is a difference between making $170K at 40 and making it at 30). Remember, there are many lawyers who went to law school straight out of their undergraduate degree and if they can make partner, they will be much younger than you but still your boss. 

To put that age into perspective, someone could feasibly finish articling by 26-27. If one is to make partner it "generally" happens around 8th year call (give or take a year), so that puts this person as a partner around 35. Even if it takes 10 years, a lawyer who took a direct path to their career could be partner at 37. 

All of that being said, you have to be comfortable taking instruction from people younger than you (which, thankfully I am). If you have an issue with this you should re-think the career path. 

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25 minutes ago, 5abi said:

Can one find good jobs after graduating at 41-45, thats the question?

Good question! I found an articling position which is intended to turn into an associate position, and they knew my age and had zero issues hiring me. They also hired an NCA student for articling last year who still works there and he's near 40. I also know of a third person who is in his late 30s at least and he also works at the same firm, only in their Toronto office. Lastly, I know of a 40+ year old who was a year ahead of me at U of T and he got a Bay St. articling position which led to a job.

tl;dr: Probably depends on the person, but 40ish year old people are getting jobs

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Just now, FortifiedEight said:

Good question! I found an articling position which is intended to turn into an associate position, and they knew my age and had zero issues hiring me. They also hired an NCA student for articling last year who still works there and he's near 40. I also know of a third person who is in his late 30s at least and he also works at the same firm, only in their Toronto office. Lastly, I know of a 40+ year old who was a year ahead of me at U of T and he got a Bay St. articling position which led to a job.

tl;dr: Probably depends on the person, but 40ish year old people are getting jobs

glad to hear that! thank you.

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Am 42. Am applying. So you're not alone. I prefer to think that the impression of mature (which feels odd applied to myself, but so be it) students is that, at this point in our lives, we aren't applying on a lark and are damn sure it's what we want to be doing. I could also be off my rocker due to my advanced age, who knows.

Plus, there's the all important fact that 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything to take into account 😄

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For what it’s worth, I know a woman who started at 46 and she has no regrets. She said once you start working and establish your career it sort of dissolves any feelings associated with a late start. I think the only real concern is financial. And to a lesser extent, like someone else said, if you have difficulty with someone much younger being your superior. 

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14 minutes ago, legallybrunette3 said:

For what it’s worth, I know a woman who started at 46 and she has no regrets. She said once you start working and establish your career it sort of dissolves any feelings associated with a late start. I think the only real concern is financial. And to a lesser extent, like someone else said, if you have difficulty with someone much younger being your superior. 

I'm applying because I've essentially hit the ceiling in my current profession with nowhere left to go or progress to. I could keep doing it from another 25 years, but I'm already bored of it, and unfortunately it's so incredibly niche that it's hard to transition to something else. 

If law school winds up blowing up in my face I may regret it, but I know for a fact that I'll regret staying in my current position for the rest of my professional life.

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8 minutes ago, PlayALawyerOnTV said:

I'm applying because I've essentially hit the ceiling in my current profession with nowhere left to go or progress to. I could keep doing it from another 25 years, but I'm already bored of it, and unfortunately it's so incredibly niche that it's hard to transition to something else. 

If law school winds up blowing up in my face I may regret it, but I know for a fact that I'll regret staying in my current position for the rest of my professional life.

Similar to this, I'm applying because it's always been a thought in the back of my mind, and somewhere around 40 I thought "why the hell don't I?" If I don't I will always regret not trying so go for it. Life is too short for endless what ifs.

The advantage to being older, too, is that if it doesn't happen, my world will not end. I've made mistakes before, and done things that if I knew then what I do now I'd have chosen differently. I don't see law school as being any different. If I go through all of this, get in, finish and hate being a lawyer I will solve that problem when I get there. I did it after hating my career out of undergrad, I did it re-entering the workforce after kids and I can do it again if I need to. 

Edited by Veggie77
edit because I'm new here and learning the quote feature :P
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On 11/21/2020 at 10:20 PM, FortifiedEight said:

I would say speak to all the lawyers that you can. Ask them about what work they're actually doing, and what a day looks like. Lawyering can be a lot of paper pushing and admin work, so determine if that would keep you satisfied and engaged. Watch some law classes online if you can find some, although know only the most entertaining are likely to be put on the web for free. Read some legal textbooks to see if you're going to be able to handle the drudgery of readings. And then sit down and consider whether you are willing to put in weeks where you do literally nothing else but class, readings, writing papers, and law-related extracurriculars. Be REALLY serious about this. When I say nothing else, it will be nothing else. That's not every week, but it's enough that you really need to be dedicated to get through.

Also consider the social side of things. People over 40 in law school are ostracized, at least at my school. I and others near my age have made some friends, but generally we're left out of most social circles. We're viewed as weird and mostly made invisible. This is also true in regards to the administration - you won't find much in the way of accommodations or even understanding of having a life outside your parents' home. This is a frustration I butt my head up against frequently, and one that I struggle with resolving on my own. If you have a good support system outside of school, these issues may not be a huge deal for you. If you do not, they could derail your legal academic career before you begin.

As to your final question, yes. Unequivocally so. I focus a lot on the various job recruits in school as a way to keep myself sane. I work tirelessly to help colleagues find jobs. In analysing the 2L recruit, one thing stood out: people over the age of 30 were disproportionately not hired. I believe in the articling recruit it gets better, and likely even better when it comes to associate positions, but age will be a barrier at some firms. I think they're looking for young, "moldable" people, and they think we're too stuck in our ways, or won't take instruction, or we're unmanageable. In reality, we bring great experience, professionalism, likely won't be flighty, and know what we want in life. The firms who understand the latter are the ones you would likely rather work at anyway.

I think the biggest consideration in going to law school is if you will like it enough to get through it. It is a horror show at times for a variety of reasons. It is probably the hardest thing I've ever put myself through. If I didn't have a very strong support system (that I lucked into at school) and a masochistic bent, I wouldn't have made it through year one. You may be one of the lucky people who just adore it, but that's something to figure out before you shell out tuition and take the time to give it a shot.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. 

I have been back at uni for a while and definitely experience what you’ve mentioned about the social aspect, I assumed it would be the same.  I do have concern over not being hired because of my age. That is something that could be a big problem. 
 

I’ll take your advice and speak to lawyers and the other tips you gave. I’ll start doing some digging. 
 

I don’t have great support circle. I’m back in the city I grew up in which is a struggle for a variety of reasons. I started my ba here and decided to return to finish it and would love to never move again! Lol. I can see life in general, being easier in a warmer city so that is something I will be considering.  I am single which has pros and cons when it comes to being a student lol. Having someone around would be great for basic company and support, it could also be a distraction. 

Any recommendations on the type of law books you think I should check out? 
 

Thank you 

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On 11/22/2020 at 3:39 PM, legallybrunette3 said:

Agreed. Definitely not full time, you might be able to do some consulting/teaching but that kind of thing requires a stable financial cushion to take it easy mentally and physically. 

I met a psychologist in her early 80’s, maybe 83.  She was working still for the province after returning to complete her BA in her 40’s. She was surprisingly sharp and technologically savvy! I’m sure she’s not the norm lol. 

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14 minutes ago, AlanaJoy said:

Any recommendations on the type of law books you think I should check out?

I would recommend looking at the textbooks your law school of choice uses for first year courses. You can email their student law society and they can get the information for you. That will give you a head's up on what readings you'll be expected to undertake.

As to a support system, you may find one at school regardless of being an old lady :) But since you don't have much support outside school, definitely consider schools which offer lots of clubs and social offerings, like peer mentoring programs or mental health initiatives. They can be a real life saver. And since school will likely be online into the foreseeable future, your support will be online too, which means the support you can get from users of this forum isn't something to ignore. There are lots of great people here with answers to questions or advice to give, so be sure not to shy away from asking for help here. For example, feel free to DM me any time!

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16 minutes ago, FortifiedEight said:For example, feel free to DM me any time!

Thank you, I really appreciate that! 

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