Unpaid Articling

[Phaedrus 84]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:48 PM, castlepie said:

This exists??

Yes, it does. 

On 11/11/2020 at 1:08 AM, Diplock said:

People have taken unpaid articling positions before. It's obviously viewed as sort of a desperation move of last resort, but I'll spare you the five additional paragraphs and cut to the point of your question.

This is why, generally. 

I know of students who have come up with "interesting" arrangements. For example, being laid off from a previous employer and agreeing to, effectively, volunteer for a lawyer as an articled clerk while collecting employment insurance (to ensure there is some source of income without eating into LOCs). The requirement under E.I. is that the person is continuing to apply for paid positions. Other arrangements I'm aware of include billable target kickbacks, or "bonuses" for business the clerk may bring in. In these scenarios, the firms almost always cover bar course and admission fees. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Phaedrus

[Pyke 3677]

20 hours ago, SNAILS said:

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your question or not.

When I taught at an Ontario college, students graduating from the Power Engineering program required a certain amount of practical experience before they could be certified as fourth class engineers by the TSSA. (We commonly referred to this as the three months of required practical "steam" time). 

The big question for students was always, "Should I accept an unpaid co-op?"

Now, if you were a high achieving student, you would get a well paid co-op regardless.

If you were willing to travel (usually north or west), you would get a well paid co-op even if you were just an average student.

If you were a low achieving student, you could stay in the local area (and keep living with your parents, etc), and take on an unpaid co-op, get certified, and then explore your career options.  

The companies that offered unpaid co-ops were generally very easy on their "interns" (which is not actually what anyone called them, but it works for illustrative purposes). They did not work them too hard, though they were expected to do some productive work. It was generally a good learning experience for the students. 

Based on this, my view of an unpaid articling position is not quite as negative as some other posters here seem to have.

Myself, I would not take on unpaid articling, but I would agree to a (relatively) low hourly rate if it was my best avenue to get called to the bar. 

I'm not sure I think an 8-12 month articling experience (depending on jurisdiction and other things), with professional licensing dues, is equivalent to a three month unpaid "steam" time, particularly since I'm guessing most people graduating from your college program are ~19-20 as opposed to, at a minimum, 25-26, but that's just a hunch.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Pyke

[setto 976]

1 hour ago, Ptolemy said:

Unpaid articling in Alberta is illegal.  Articling students are entitled to minimum wage.  The LSA emailed a notice to the profession earlier this year confirming such.  

OP, here's an LSA publication dealing with this. 

https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/articling-students-paid-employees-under-employment-standards/

[QuincyWagstaff 3388]

7 hours ago, Ptolemy said:

Unpaid articling in Alberta is illegal.  Articling students are entitled to minimum wage.  The LSA emailed a notice to the profession earlier this year confirming such.  

Great, and I hope every law society follows suit. 
 

[BalChris 0]

9 hours ago, setto said:

OP, here's an LSA publication dealing with this. 

https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/articling-students-paid-employees-under-employment-standards/

Thank you very much.great help.

[SNAILS 165]

12 hours ago, Pyke said:

I'm not sure I think an 8-12 month articling experience (depending on jurisdiction and other things), with professional licensing dues, is equivalent to a three month unpaid "steam" time, particularly since I'm guessing most people graduating from your college program are ~19-20 as opposed to, at a minimum, 25-26, but that's just a hunch.

Equivalent, no.

But it supports the idea that unpaid people in an apprentice or intern type role are more likely to be viewed as someone who is there to learn (while doing some work) as opposed to someone who has to do long hours of grunt work.

The evidence of whether what I am saying is true or not would lie in the specific case where such an unpaid position is offered. The applicant could ask what hours or work are expected, what duties are expected, etc.

I'm going to refer back to what Diplock said about a "desperation move." It may come down to a choice of not getting accredited as a lawyer or taking this route.

Another quick point I will make relates to Ryerson's integrated practice curriculum - or whatever it's called when you don;t have to do the articling year. (Look it up if you don't know what I am talking about). This itself shows evidence of a lack of readily available, well paid articling positions.