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rebeccamtl

Chances - mature student

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~3.0 GPA from a decade ago (everything from F to A+ on my transcripts), 168 LSAT and retaking November for 170+ (PTing in the 168-174 range right now, I choked in October on LG). Good LOR, including one very strong academic. Work experience as entrepreneur in niche sector. Interested in public law/working in government.

I know Ottawa cares a lot about GPA but would a decent LSAT score balance that out for a Mature student?

I really love Ottawa and think it would be a great place for my kids. 
 

Also applying to McGill, Ryerson, Queens, Osgoode and U of T (I know I know but they do have a mature category so maybe they can overlook my GPA for my work/life experience). 

Edited by rebeccamtl
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14 minutes ago, Luckycharm said:

really hard to predict 'mature" category.

What is your L2 and B2?

I'm not 100% sure but probably still around 3.1-3.3. I don't have any real upwards trend, every semester is a mix of grades from C to A. I also have an F/DNW that I retook but still seems to calculate into my GPA. The only way of my GPA looking any better is by Ryerson's methods, where they take your best 20 classes. In which case it's around 3.6. But again, I graduated in 2011, and I've done a decent amount since, including starting my own company and having two babies. 

I know mature cycles are difficult to predict, which is what's killing me. I guess I'm just looking for someone to tell me they know someone who got in with my stats 😭

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I know you're focused on Ontario, but if you are willing, take a look at U of M as well as a back-up. They will drop that F and a bunch of those C's, and your 168 will be quite a standout there. Since Manitoba is a purely index school in the regular category, with no personal statement at all, you can just do some math and calculate whether you'll get in.

The selection of applicants in the Index Score category is made solely upon the 50/50 weighting of AGPA/LSAT score.

The formula for calculation: [[[ (𝑂𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝐿𝑆𝐴𝑇 𝑆𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑒 − 120) 60 ] × 50] + [ (𝐴𝐺𝑃𝐴 × 50)/ 4.5 ]] = 𝐼𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑥 𝑆𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑒

A chart showing the distribution of offers to applicants based on their respective AGPA and LSAT score can be found at: Sorry, dead link.

-GM

Edited by GrumpyMountie
Sorry; the link they provided did not work. I'm sure you can find the info though!

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21 minutes ago, GrumpyMountie said:

I know you're focused on Ontario, but if you are willing, take a look at U of M as well as a back-up. They will drop that F and a bunch of those C's, and your 168 will be quite a standout there. Since Manitoba is a purely index school in the regular category, with no personal statement at all, you can just do some math and calculate whether you'll get in.

The selection of applicants in the Index Score category is made solely upon the 50/50 weighting of AGPA/LSAT score.

The formula for calculation: [[[ (𝑂𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝐿𝑆𝐴𝑇 𝑆𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑒 − 120) 60 ] × 50] + [ (𝐴𝐺𝑃𝐴 × 50)/ 4.5 ]] = 𝐼𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑥 𝑆𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑒

A chart showing the distribution of offers to applicants based on their respective AGPA and LSAT score can be found at: Sorry, dead link.

-GM

To be honest, while my husband has been incredibly supportive of this whole journey and is willing to pack up our lives and move, I don’t think he would be very happy in Winnipeg. It’s also completely away from every member of our family, which wouldn’t be easy with our two (very young) children. It definitely makes the admissions process tougher when you have to factor in other people’s lives! 

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I suggest you contact Ottawa Law school directly to find out how they view your application.

168 LSAT is a very impressive score...

Your academic performance may be over

 

Mature Applicants

In order to qualify as a mature student, at the time of application:

  • the applicant must have five or more years of work or other non-academic experience since completing secondary school studies; and
  • the period of non-academic experience may include part-time, but not full time, post-secondary studies.

In this category, additional consideration will be given to relevant outstanding qualities, as evidenced by previous career and/or life experiences. The academic program in law school is very demanding, so we are looking for a demonstration of capacity for academic success. This usually includes satisfactory completion of at least some courses at the university level.

In addition to all the documents listed on our How to Apply page, Mature applicants must also submit to OLSAS an up-to-date résumé or curriculum vitae. Applicants must submit their curriculum vitae or resume via the SAM page in their OLSAS application.

If you are unable to obtain a letter of reference from an academic source, please choose referees who are able to speak to your abilities as they relate to law school, namely your ability to analyse, write, conduct research, work in groups, and organize your time.

Applicants in this category must be Canadian citizens or permanent residents.

Edited by Luckycharm

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4 hours ago, Luckycharm said:

I suggest you contact Ottawa Law school directly to find out how they view your application.

168 LSAT is a very impressive score...

Your academic performance may be over

 

Mature Applicants

In order to qualify as a mature student, at the time of application:

  • the applicant must have five or more years of work or other non-academic experience since completing secondary school studies; and
  • the period of non-academic experience may include part-time, but not full time, post-secondary studies.

In this category, additional consideration will be given to relevant outstanding qualities, as evidenced by previous career and/or life experiences. The academic program in law school is very demanding, so we are looking for a demonstration of capacity for academic success. This usually includes satisfactory completion of at least some courses at the university level.

In addition to all the documents listed on our How to Apply page, Mature applicants must also submit to OLSAS an up-to-date résumé or curriculum vitae. Applicants must submit their curriculum vitae or resume via the SAM page in their OLSAS application.

If you are unable to obtain a letter of reference from an academic source, please choose referees who are able to speak to your abilities as they relate to law school, namely your ability to analyse, write, conduct research, work in groups, and organize your time.

Applicants in this category must be Canadian citizens or permanent residents.

typed too fast

 

I think you have met the academic requirements...

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Sorry for the necropost, but I was wondering if I still fit in the "mature" definition for UOttawa:

I did my BA 20 years ago, but I took one MPA course last year (but did not continue the program afterwards).

Also, does mature category mean they will look less at your LSAT, or just less at your cGPA?  

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7 hours ago, dimsum1 said:

Sorry for the necropost, but I was wondering if I still fit in the "mature" definition for UOttawa:

I did my BA 20 years ago, but I took one MPA course last year (but did not continue the program afterwards).

Also, does mature category mean they will look less at your LSAT, or just less at your cGPA?  

Yes you would! Because you didn’t go back full time. 

I think they probably weigh LSAT even more than regular category, since it’s the most recent indicator of academic performance for those of us with old/low GPAs.

I haven’t got in and I don’t have high hopes, but we’ll see. My OLSAS cGPA ended up being 2.88. 

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im also applying as a mature candidate in the french civil law program, hoping to get an answer soon too.

Thanks for all the info!

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My view  is neither easier nor harder for a mature student to get into law school than it is for a general applicant.

There is an expectation that you have life experiences that make you a qualified candidate.  It is still important to have a good GPA and LSAT score, but life experiences are viewed as partial compensation for a lack of one or the other.

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3 hours ago, rebeccamtl said:

Yes you would! Because you didn’t go back full time. 

I think they probably weigh LSAT even more than regular category, since it’s the most recent indicator of academic performance for those of us with old/low GPAs.

I haven’t got in and I don’t have high hopes, but we’ll see. My OLSAS cGPA ended up being 2.88. 

Thanks for the reply.  

I plugged everything into the calculator helpfully provided by one of the posts here, and here's what I got.  Not great, but here it is:

Cumulative GPA (CGPA): 2.93
  Last two years (L2): 3.16
  Last three years (L3): 2.94
  Best two years (B2): 3.20
  Best three years (B3): 3.08

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26 minutes ago, dimsum1 said:

Thanks for the reply.  

I plugged everything into the calculator helpfully provided by one of the posts here, and here's what I got.  Not great, but here it is:

Cumulative GPA (CGPA): 2.93
  Last two years (L2): 3.16
  Last three years (L3): 2.94
  Best two years (B2): 3.20
  Best three years (B3): 3.08

Very very similar to me. I’ll be posting my acceptances, if any, as I get them, so feel free to follow along for the ride 😂 

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12 minutes ago, rebeccamtl said:

Very very similar to me. I’ll be posting my acceptances, if any, as I get them, so feel free to follow along for the ride 😂 

Awesome, will do. 

I too am looking for Ottawa or at least close-ish to the area.  Partner is doing their 2nd degree soon and they've been around the country (and around the world) following me for many years since I'm in the military, so it'd be nice to actually be somewhere more than 3-4 years.

I also get conflicting info from folks about how my military service would affect a law school application.  Some on this forum say it'll help stand out, but others I've talked to (not on this forum) say it's no different than other mature applicants.  Thoughts?

Edited by dimsum1

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19 hours ago, dimsum1 said:

I also get conflicting info from folks about how my military service would affect a law school application.  Some on this forum say it'll help stand out, but others I've talked to (not on this forum) say it's no different than other mature applicants.  Thoughts?

I would think it would help, but I suppose it depends on what you did in the military, and what the resumes look like of the rest of the applicant pool. People love to make predictions but at the end of the day, we don’t really know who we’re “up against”. I thought my resume was pretty interesting, for my age, considering I also have two kids, but I’ve come to realize it’s pretty unexceptional compared to a lot of high-achievers applying to law school 😆

My gut tells me military experience shows dedication, discipline, etc. 
 

If your GPA is decent, you do well on the LSAT, and you can write a good personal statement, you certainly stand a strong chance! 

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20 hours ago, dimsum1 said:

Thanks for the reply.  

I plugged everything into the calculator helpfully provided by one of the posts here, and here's what I got.  Not great, but here it is:

Cumulative GPA (CGPA): 2.93
  Last two years (L2): 3.16
  Last three years (L3): 2.94
  Best two years (B2): 3.20
  Best three years (B3): 3.08

May I know the link so I can calculate as well? 

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43 minutes ago, cat123 said:

May I know the link so I can calculate as well? 

Here it is:  I used the old one because the new one didn't go back past 2001 (not that I think it really matters now) but the new one would work as well.

https://lsutil.azurewebsites.net/CGPA

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