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Josh4567

GPA 2.7 LSAT 158

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15 minutes ago, Seekingredemption said:

That is unfortunate. I think averaging LSATs is a pretty ridiculous policy for the reason I stated above. 
 

In your situation you need to really ask yourself how much you want law school, because it seems to me that your stats will be sufficient to get in somewhere-just maybe not where you’re willing to move. 
 

Also, 3.8 and 160 is not necessary. There are plenty of schools in this country that routinely take students with lower stats than these. Maybe try for USask? They’re an L2 school, they don’t average LSATs and their mean LSAT is 158. 

I'm willing to move, just more of a question whether it is within my (financial) capacity to do so  - this on top of paying for the Law tuition. I'd have to rent out my home partially here - returning to see my Misses regularly  - and rent another residence at wherever I go.

I'll look into USask, though being this late into the year I am not sure if they are still taking applications for a 2021 Sep. start.

Edited by FirstGear

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56 minutes ago, FirstGear said:

What worked in your favor to get into TRU? I have a similar issue as you. CGPA is 3.3, because I did a Math and Economics degree back in 2010-2013, where my grades were much worse (especially from the core Math and science courses). My last 1.5 years GPA would be 3.8; the poor grades from 2013 pull it down from 3.8 -> 3.3. If I applied next cycle, I'd thus have a cGPA of 3.8+ based on a most recent 2-year GPA only.

I think you’re in a great position. Much better than me. My l2 was probably the same (2.7). 

I think what worked in my favour is that I did everything to “redeem” myself. I went back to university and got straight As in my postgrad. I did a paralegal accelerated program (2 years program squeezed into 1 year) and got a 3.8. I gained a lot of legal work experience and aimed for the bigger, well known firms. I volunteered a lot, and because of my paralegal education, I got a lot of opportunities to do legal volunteer work. I also work at a firm where I made amazing connections, one who went on to do big things. All of these things done in a 2 year span (I did both programs at the same time). If you see my posts, I applied to law school back in 2017. Also, I really focused on a stellar PS that explained my circumstances during undergrad. 
 

Many on this site will say you can’t get in with this type of gpa. This site has a lot of negativity but I think if you really want something, you can get it. I know a student who got a high 170s lsat score and had a sub 3.0 gpa...and got into UofT. Also, I think the LSAT is a really learnable test. If I didn’t get in this year, I would’ve aimed for a 165-170 and apply again. 165 is really doable. 
 

Edited by Relentless2017
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5 minutes ago, FirstGear said:

I'm willing to move, just more of a question whether it is within my (financial) capacity to do so  - this on top of paying for the Law tuition. I'd have to rent out my home partially here - returning to see my Misses regularly  - and rent another residence at wherever I go.

I'll look into USask, though being this late into the year I am not sure if they are still taking applications for a 2021 Sep. start.

February 1st is the deadline for USask. 
 

Best of luck to you! 

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2 hours ago, Relentless2017 said:

I think you’re in a great position. Much better than me. My l2 was probably the same (2.7). 

I think what worked in my favour is that I did everything to “redeem” myself. I went back to university and got straight As in my postgrad. I did a paralegal accelerated program (2 years program squeezed into 1 year) and got a 3.8. I gained a lot of legal work experience and aimed for the bigger, well known firms. I volunteered a lot, and because of my paralegal education, I got a lot of opportunities to do legal volunteer work. I also work at a firm where I made amazing connections, one who went on to do big things. All of these things done in a 2 year span (I did both programs at the same time). If you see my posts, I applied to law school back in 2017. Also, I really focused on a stellar PS that explained my circumstances during undergrad. 
 

Many on this site will say you can’t get in with this type of gpa. This site has a lot of negativity but I think if you really want something, you can get it. I know a student who got a high 170s lsat score and had a sub 3.0 gpa...and got into UofT. Also, I think the LSAT is a really learnable test. If I didn’t get in this year, I would’ve aimed for a 165-170 and apply again. 165 is really doable. 
 

Thanks for replying. That is good to hear. I was inspired to go into law due to experience litigating numerous tax and civil matters in Alberta's Court of Queens Bench and Alberta's Provincial court, as a self-represented litigant. I also assisted other co-workers over the years with similar matters, mostly involving Tax, Breach of Contract, or Wrongful Dismissal. It is nice to see that some law schools take experience into account.

I attended undergrad at UBC from 2010-2013 (Math and Economics), where I took very odd courses like Calculus III, Calculus IV, Complex Variables, Econometrics, and some upper level courses in Probability. I got many, many C and C+ grades. My GPA was 2.9; 2.4 if you exclude my Year 1. I then applied 1/2 of that degree to an Accounting one, which I graduate this May 2021 - where my GPA is 3.9 so far over 13 courses (1 1/3 years). So I am being pulled down by the 2.4.

Edited by FirstGear
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16 minutes ago, FirstGear said:

Thanks for replying. That is good to hear. I was inspired to go into law due to experience litigating numerous tax and civil matters in Alberta's Court of Queens Bench and Alberta's Provincial court, as a self-represented litigant. I also assisted other co-workers over the years with similar matters, mostly involving Tax, Breach of Contract, or Wrongful Dismissal. It is nice to see that some law schools take experience into account.

 

 On this site, people seem to say that legal experience is the norm and it's nothing outstanding. However, in my paralegal graduating class (approx. 50 students in both sections), I know of 4 people that got into law school within a year after graduation. We had legal education and practical legal experience, and how wouldn't that help an application to law school?

Edited by Relentless2017

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13 minutes ago, Relentless2017 said:

 On this site, people seem to say that legal experience is the norm and it's nothing outstanding. However, in my paralegal graduating class (approx. 50 students in both sections), I know of 4 people that got into law school within a year after graduation. We had legal education and practical legal experience, and how wouldn't that help an application to law school?

Nobody in admissions at any law school in Canada is going to be impressed by a paralegal degree. Just because people with that background got in to law school doesn't mean that they were admitted for that reason.

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2 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Nobody in admissions at any law school in Canada is going to be impressed by a paralegal degree. Just because people with that background got in to law school doesn't mean that they were admitted for that reason.

I agree, it wasn’t for that reason. I just personally think that it helps. Why do I think this? Because I have nothing else on my application but a bunch of legal related experiences and education. 

Edited by Relentless2017

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17 minutes ago, Relentless2017 said:

We had legal education and practical legal experience, and how wouldn't that help an application to law school?

I understand where you're coming from, and the same logic is why so many people major in polisci, philosophy, and criminology as a precursor to law school.

The reality is that there's no correlation between legal experience/education and success in law school. Admissions committees know this.

Additionally, there's a lot of value in accepting students with diverse educational and professional backgrounds. It makes for better, more educational discussions in the class room.

Having legal experience/education gives you more substance when it comes to explaining why you want to go to law school, but that's pretty much the extent of your advantage.

Edited by canuckfanatic
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I had the OP's stats almost exactly (except that I had a 2.89 CGPA).  Back then, I applied at every English-language law school in the country that existed.

In the 2012 cycle, I was accepted at UVic, the University of Alberta, the University of Saskatchewan, UNB and Windsor.  I ended up being waitlisted at Ottawa and at Western.  I was rejected everywhere else.  I should note that I generally applied as an access/discretionary candidate.

I had volunteered at a food bank, done independent research in undergrad, helped with other pro bono literature research, and held a bunch of other extracurriculars.

Much more importantly (in my mind and likely in the minds of the various admissions committees), I suffered and suffer from cystic fibrosis, Hemophilia A and chronic pain from a botched foot surgery.

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3 hours ago, FirstGear said:

What worked in your favor to get into TRU? I have a similar issue as you. CGPA is 3.3, because I did a Math and Economics degree back in 2010-2013, where my grades were much worse (especially from the core Math and science courses). My last 1.5 years GPA would be 3.8; the poor grades from 2013 pull it down from 3.8 -> 3.3. If I applied next cycle, I'd thus have a cGPA of 3.8+ based on a most recent 2-year GPA only.

I'm not the person you asked, but I had a 2.95 cGPA from UBC (Arts), L2 3.4 and B2 3.6. I had a 164 LSAT. I got into TRU after initially being waitlisted for a few weeks. 

I was never told what worked in my favour, but I had a Film Studies degree, work experience in photography, video production, and marketing, and a lot of volunteer experience.

I've heard TRU looks at your L3, with emphasis on your L2. If you can swing a 160+ you should be good to go.

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On 10/26/2020 at 5:17 AM, SNAILS said:

Are you saying that LSAT and GPA are (mostly) all that matters?

What factors, if any, would you say would compensate for a low GPA and/or LSAT?

Let's disregard Access and Indigenous categories for this purpose.

Most schools still put the heaviest emphasis on GPA and LSAT and it is rare that other factors are strong enough to override stats that put an applicant out of the running. At the end of the day, they want to know you have the academic rigor to make it through law school.

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37 minutes ago, Psychometronic said:

Most schools still put the heaviest emphasis on GPA and LSAT and it is rare that other factors are strong enough to override stats that put an applicant out of the running. At the end of the day, they want to know you have the academic rigor to make it through law school.

I agree. This is why I went back to school - to show that I can still excel in post secondary education. I even completed two programs at the same time. If you can prove to law schools that you can be successful, even if you have a poor undergrad gpa, then you’ve got a shot. As someone whose been trying to get into law school since 2017, I’ve MET (not talked to on this site) people in real life with sub 3.0’s who got into law school but simply don’t post on this site (mainly because certain type of people bring negativity). And a couple of these people have excelled in law school, and made it onto Bay St (not that Bay St is the goal, but we all know how competitive it is to land a job there). 
 

This is just from my experience so everyone can have their own opinion. I’m just putting this out there for future people who want to apply but have been told they can’t do it because of x/y/z. 

Edited by Relentless2017
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1 hour ago, Relentless2017 said:

I agree. This is why I went back to school - to show that I can still excel in post secondary education. I even completed two programs at the same time. If you can prove to law schools that you can be successful, even if you have a poor undergrad gpa, then you’ve got a shot. As someone whose been trying to get into law school since 2017, I’ve MET (not talked to on this site) people in real life with sub 3.0’s who got into law school but simply don’t post on this site (mainly because certain type of people bring negativity). And a couple of these people have excelled in law school, and made it onto Bay St (not that Bay St is the goal, but we all know how competitive it is to land a job there). 
 

This is just from my experience so everyone can have their own opinion. I’m just putting this out there for future people who want to apply but have been told they can’t do it because of x/y/z. 

Care to share what they said?

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7 hours ago, canuckfanatic said:

I'm not the person you asked, but I had a 2.95 cGPA from UBC (Arts), L2 3.4 and B2 3.6. I had a 164 LSAT. I got into TRU after initially being waitlisted for a few weeks. 

I was never told what worked in my favour, but I had a Film Studies degree, work experience in photography, video production, and marketing, and a lot of volunteer experience.

I've heard TRU looks at your L3, with emphasis on your L2. If you can swing a 160+ you should be good to go.

Congrats. Unfortunately I really doubt I got mid 160s on this January write, unless the curve was very generous because many people did poorly. My practice test scores were 157-160, but I didn't do much practice tests after a large volume and change in studying right up to the actual LSAT. The jump from 160-164 on the LSAT is quite significant. Based on that, and how accurate I thought my answers were, I've been expecting an approximate 160 score. Won't know until Feb. 3. 

Anything with L3 is going to hurt me even more, putting me at 3.0 cGPA. I'll probably apply at TRU as well, especially if my LSAT score turns out to be no higher (or even less) than 160.

Edited by FirstGear

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On 1/22/2021 at 12:15 AM, Relentless2017 said:

Update: I got into TRU law in the first round with my stats. So to OP, and to future applicants who apply with a 2.7cGPA, work hard and you can get into law school. I'm still hoping I get some other offers. 

You have a post-grad with 4.0 GPA, right?

You have very good chance (close to 100% if your post-grad is a 2 year program) to get into UofA and DAL if you applied to them.

Congratulations on your TRU acceptance!

Edited by NeverGiveUp

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9 hours ago, NeverGiveUp said:

You have a post-grad with 4.0 GPA, right?

You have very good chance (close to 100% if your post-grad is a 2 year program) to get into UofA and DAL if you applied to them.

Congratulations on your TRU acceptance!

Thank you! It was just a one year program. 
I feel like TRU took my college paralegal program grades into account. This program was a bridge program to a university degree (so the credits could be used to apply to a university degree, not sure), and it was 2 years squeezed into 1 year. I think that’s another reason for my acceptance. 

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20 hours ago, Relentless2017 said:

And a couple of these people have excelled in law school, and made it onto Bay St (not that Bay St is the goal, but we all know how competitive it is to land a job there). 

Moderately? You don't need to "excel" in law school to get a Bay job; you just (usually) need to be somewhat above-average at a school with a good placement rate.

I just wanted to clear that up given the "we all know how competitive it is to land a job there" comment (and the general obsession with Bay and aura surrounding it among 0Ls). I get the impression that "we" don't all, in fact, know. Appellate-level clerkships and elite boutiques are the actually impressively competitive jobs to land.

Edited by CleanHands
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11 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Moderately? You don't need to "excel" in law school to get a Bay job; you just (usually) need to be somewhat above-average at a school with a good placement rate.

I just wanted to clear that up given the "we all know how competitive it is to land a job there" comment (and the general obsession with Bay and aura surrounding it among 0Ls). I get the impression that "we" don't all, in fact, know. Appellate-level clerkships and elite boutiques are the actually impressively competitive jobs to land.

First year summer jobs on Bay St are extremely hard to land. We have over 400 applications for 10 spots at our firm. I’m sorry, but you’re incorrect. Yes, court level clerkships are competitive to land. One of my references was a previous student at my firm and now works at as a court clerk. I don’t know what you’re trying to get at here. It doesn’t mean that landing a job on Bay is easy to do.

I’m just an applicant but I know a lot about the process because I worked for the students before. 
 
http://ultravires.ca/2020/10/toronto-summer-2020-1l-recruitment-results/

 

Edited by Relentless2017

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5 minutes ago, Relentless2017 said:

First year summer jobs on Bay St are extremely hard to land 

This is not what you wrote.

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2 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

This is not what you wrote.

The articling students are typically summer students from previous years, who then go on to be first year associates, and so on and so forth...what are you trying to get at? It is hard to land a job on Bay St. These numbers show it. There are only ever 10 articling students in a large corporate law firm, most of them being former summer students. They had to land a summer job first. So in which part is it easy to get in? 

Edited by Relentless2017

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