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0Lawschool2020

What will you do if classes end up being online for fall 2021?

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I've been assuming that classes will have to be in-person by the start of fall 2021, but I've started to question whether that will really be the case. It kind of scares me to think that it may not be, tbh. I'm applying as if classes will be in-person the start of the 2021-2022 school year, but if they end up being online...I will probably defer for a year. Or reapply if they won't let me defer. I just genuinely don't see the point in beginning my law school experience online. I feel like a good portion of what I am paying for is the in-person experience and connections. And I don't learn nearly as well with online classes. I know it's a little early to be thinking about this, but it's on my mind regardless. 

What are you guys thinking? Is everyone in this forum assuming that classes will be in-person as well, or are you guys planning to still attend law school in 2021 if it ends up being online? 

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I think it will come down to personal preferences and finances for some people. Staying at home for those who would otherwise move cities and provinces would be a better option and opportunity to save money. For others, they might be deterred by the lack of in person experience. 

IF I get in anywhere, I'll probably start school regardless of anything but that's only because I'm already getting old and wouldn't want to wait another year. 

Covid is really unpredictable so hard to say how things will turn out by next year. This year was already full of surprises.

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I've been thinking about this a lot too. I'll likely be moving across the country to start school, so I really hope the pandemic will have calmed enough for in-person classes to be viable. Building a network of friends is so important in school and in a brand new city! I learn better in class as well but could manage doing online work for a while if I had to. Hopefully, if that does become the case, some of the kinks will have been worked out from this year.

Unfortunately it's hard to know anything at this point. The second wave is beginning and who knows if there will be a third? It's difficult to predict months into the future, much less a year. 

I doubt we would be given the option to defer for many schools - barring exceptional circumstances outside of COVID. Either way, I don't think I'd defer. I want to start school as soon as I can, online or not. I couldn't look an acceptance in the eye and turn it down, especially if it's for one of my top choices.

Edited by Firecracker
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I'll still be starting in 2021 even if it's online. Given the length of time it may be until a vaccine is developed, there's no guarantee 2022 will be completely in-person either. Whatever work plans I had before (in case I didn't do well on the LSAT and waited for that reason) aren't really viable because of the pandemic. If I did find a job, there'd be no guarantee it wouldn't suck me away from doing law school altogether. I also don't know if I'd get the same chances at my preferred schools next time if I got offers and rejected them this go around.

I will likely still move too if it's online. For privacy reasons I won't be specific, but law school is my "ticket out" of an undesirable situation. Also, even if classes aren't in-person, there will be other law students that I'd like to start building connections with, especially in a new city. 

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4 minutes ago, lh22 said:

For privacy reasons I won't be specific, but law school is my "ticket out" of an undesirable situation. Also, even if classes aren't in-person, there will be other law students that I'd like to start building connections with, especially in a new city. 

I relate to this. Wanting to move ASAP is another big contributor to why I want to start school next year regardless. Moving wouldn't be the most financially smart idea for me if classes end up being online, but it would be worth it.

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18 minutes ago, Firecracker said:

I doubt we would be given the option to defer for many schools - barring exceptional circumstances outside of COVID. Either way, I don't think I'd defer. I want to start school as soon as I can, online or not. I couldn't look an acceptance in the eye and turn it down, especially if it's for one of my top choices.

That's true, I don't know if I could turn down an acceptance from my reach schools (UofT/Osgoode) but I also know UofT has been going forward with in-person classes even now so I believe they'll be in-person next year anyway. Osgoode, I'm not sure. I agree about the wanting to move too, though, it'd be nice to know where I'm going to spend the next three years.

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14 minutes ago, lh22 said:

I'll still be starting in 2021 even if it's online. Given the length of time it may be until a vaccine is developed, there's no guarantee 2022 will be completely in-person either.

...I feel like I can't think like that. I can't imagine things wouldn't be significantly different by 2022 😭

 

Quote

I also don't know if I'd get the same chances at my preferred schools next time if I got offers and rejected them this go around.

I didn't think schools would discriminate a second go-around, tbh. 

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2 minutes ago, 0Lawschool2020 said:

I didn't think schools would discriminate a second go-around, tbh. 

It's less about them dinging you and more about the applicant pool I think. Some years are more competitive than others, so unless someone has crazy high stats they'd be taking a risk. 

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2 minutes ago, Firecracker said:

It's less about them dinging you and more about the applicant pool I think. Some years are more competitive than others, so unless someone has crazy high stats they'd be taking a risk. 

I thought people were speculating that this year would be more competitive though, with the applicant pool already being 30% larger than it was in preceding years at this point in time (mind, that's for North America because it comes from LSAC). And then there's applications historically trending high during periods of economic recession to add to the mix. 

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1 minute ago, 0Lawschool2020 said:

I thought people were speculating that this year would be more competitive though, with the applicant pool already being 30% larger than it was in preceding years at this point in time (mind, that's for North America because it comes from LSAC). And then there's applications historically trending high during periods of economic recession to add to the mix. 

Things could definitely play out that way! But times do be cray cray so we can't be certain. Because we can't be 100% sure, it's still a risk.

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39 minutes ago, 0Lawschool2020 said:

...I feel like I can't think like that. I can't imagine things wouldn't be significantly different by 2022 😭

 

Given that it's been almost a year since cases started spreading in Wuhan, being in pandemic mode a year from now doesn't strike me as improbable. Maybe not full lockdown, but hybrid learning is my prediction for next year. 

If you assume the worst case scenario, either you wind up being right or you're proved wrong and get pleasantly surprised. Then again, I'm that anal retentive wanna-go-to-law-school type who's Very Fun At Parties™️ thank you very much. 

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Not sure. I haven’t travelled much and my whole plan was to study for the lsat and work/travel this year so as to get it out of me before settling into a career. You know, work on/in farms/construction and stay in hostels and drink all night and shit. So much for that. Given that I’ve already essentially wasted a year I may just have to stay at home and not go away as I intended if there’s no widespread vaccine. I just can’t justify paying 3x the cost of my home province’s tuition out East for essentially the same thing (online law classes) with the only benefit being that I could live in a new place on my own. The obvious caveat being that we’d all in this weird socially and physically distanced hell so I don’t see as much of a benefit there as I had initially envisioned it pre-covid. My social life has already taken a hit as it is and I can’t imagine moving to a place like London, Kingston, Halifax, or wherever during the pandemic and not knowing anyone. 

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9 hours ago, 0Lawschool2020 said:

I thought people were speculating that this year would be more competitive though, with the applicant pool already being 30% larger than it was in preceding years at this point in time (mind, that's for North America because it comes from LSAC). And then there's applications historically trending high during periods of economic recession to add to the mix. 

is Canada same proportion of applicant increase as the US i.e. 30%?

I am selfishly hoping that classes will be online for 2021/2022 then portion of the applicants will defer because of the tuition really not worth for online only especially in Ontario or banks are not providing financing to students........so the pool will shrink a bit........

I will still go if I get admitted somewhere even if it is online.....

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2 hours ago, many2021 said:

is Canada same proportion of applicant increase as the US i.e. 30%?

Where are you getting this info?

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37 minutes ago, MountainMon said:

Where are you getting this info?

 

33 minutes ago, many2021 said:

i don't know it neither. I quoted what 0Lawschool2020  said

Sorry, I should have linked my sources! LSAC has a reoccurring podcast to update people on their data about law school applications. Admittedly, it's definitely geared towards American applications but I think Canada will likely follow the same trends as the US, though it may not be as large a difference.

I was going off word of mouth when I wrote 30% for North America, but I just listened to the LSAC podcast to double-check the numbers and they actually mention what the Canadian numbers are. Applicants are only up 1.9% while applications are up 5.5% in Canada. Podcast is found here. I think these numbers are a little low though, and will likely rise after the Nov 1st deadline (that's just my hypothesis).

Edit: ^^Actually, I just noticed the date on the podcast (March 2020) and I think it's for numbers from the 2020 application year. With the large increase in test-takers, though, I would still hypothesize that applicants will rise even higher this year. 

I also did a little more digging to try and figure out where the 30% number came from, and I think it actually came from increased LSAT test takers. At this point in the year, we are seeing significantly higher numbers than last year. That data is available here. Though June and July had less test takers than normal, August-November is around and above the 30% figure. August 2020 had about 28% more test takers than July 2019 (there was no test in August 2019). October 2020 has about 45% more test takers registered than October 2019 did. And November 2020 has about 79% more test takers registered than November 2019 did. Which is crazy!...imo. 

 

 

Edited by 0Lawschool2020
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20 minutes ago, many2021 said:

i don't know it neither. I quoted what 0Lawschool2020  said

I bet they're referring to this: https://report.lsac.org/ThreeYearComparison.aspx. It doesn't support the idea that we'll have 30% more applicants this cycle though, nor is it Canadian data - it's American. For all we know Canadian applications are down 30%. If you look at the section on Canadians applying to American law schools the numbers are actually down 7% from this time last year though the sample size is very small.

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2 minutes ago, MountainMon said:

I bet they're referring to this: https://report.lsac.org/ThreeYearComparison.aspx. It doesn't support the idea that we'll have 30% more applicants this cycle though, nor is it Canadian data - it's American. For all we know Canadian applications are down 30%. If you look at the section on Canadians applying to American law schools the numbers are actually down 7% from this time last year though the sample size is very small.

I just posted where my data's from, beat you to it by a minute lol. I hadn't seen that chart, but it's definitely another interesting point! I'm not surprised Canadian applications are down for American schools, I don't think most Canadians want to leave the country with how America is handling the pandemic 😬 

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7 minutes ago, 0Lawschool2020 said:

 

Sorry, I should have linked my sources! LSAC has a reoccurring podcast to update people on their data about law school applications. Admittedly, it's definitely geared towards American applications but I think Canada will likely follow the same trends as the US, though it may not be as large a difference.

I was going off word of mouth when I wrote 30% for North America, but I just listened to the LSAC podcast to double-check the numbers and they actually mention what the Canadian numbers are. Applicants are only up 1.9% while applications are up 5.5% in Canada. Podcast is found here. I think these numbers are a little low though, and will likely rise after the Nov 1st deadline (that's just my hypothesis).

These numbers and that podcast pertain to the 2019/20 cycle, not the 2020/21 cycle.

I also did a little more digging to try and figure out where the 30% number came from, and I think it actually came from increased LSAT test takers. At this point in the year, we are seeing significantly higher numbers than last year. That data is available here. Though June and July had less test takers than normal, August-November is around and above the 30% figure. August 2020 had about 28% more test takers than July 2019 (there was no test in August 2019). October 2020 has about 45% more test takers registered than October 2019 did. And November 2020 has about 79% more test takers registered than November 2019 did. Which is crazy!...imo. 

If you look at the Canada-relevant LSAT numbers for the 20/21 cycle from June - Dec (presumably when the majority of applicants for the following fall take the LSAT) it seems LSAT takes are up from 103,442 in 19/20 to 116425 in 20/21. So that's closer to 10%... as of right now. Currently the Jan (last truly relevant LSAT date for Canadian schools) and Feb (only relevant for some schools) registrations are way down and for all we know could level out that 10% difference eventually. It's important to note that there are simply waaay more Americans taking the LSAT than Canadians and their schools accept later LSATs to my knowledge so that could do all sorts of wacky things to the data. It's also important that there are a variety of factors that could contribute to people taking the test earlier than usual (ie for the 2021/22 cycle) like increased flexibility from online classes, the new ability to cancel scores retroactively for first time test takers, etc. I guess we'll know when the new class profiles and medians come out in a year or two whether there was any significant increase in scores. For me, there are just too many unknowns to say that there will be 30% more applicants to Canadian law schools even if one extrapolates from the American data.

In any event I am very doubtful that a global pandemic and reality of online school is encouraging anyone to consider taking on 5-6 figure debt for online law school.    

 

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I agree with MountainMon too. I also think that because the May June July Aug LSAT do not count into the retake limit. so people can take it and like what you said the flex make it easier for people to take the test. so i am not surprise the number of total test taker increase. In addition, i agree that with this economy situation who wants to take that kind of debt if they already struggle with the job market or just finish their undergrad. it will take them forever to pay back. For those that are not living in the GTA, the cost of living (housing) is quite high. If you are lucky get admitted to U of T ($35,000/yr) + living in downtown condo by yourself (start $2000/m), there is no way any kind of loan can pay for that for 3 years. I am hoping it is going to be less competitive for this cycle. :)

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