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2021-2022 Toronto Articling ITCs

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24 minutes ago, TorontoJ said:

True but what if your top choice calls with an offer after 6 p.m. because a slot opened up due to a rejection and you've already now accepted your 2nd choice because you promised to get back to them asap. What then?

 

13 minutes ago, NZT said:

I was actually wondering the same thing.

The rules stipulate that "Students shall deal with offers received as expeditiously as possible regardless of the stipulated time that the offer shall be allowed to remain open", but how does that make sense if "All offers made at or after 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, shall be allowed to remain open until at least 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, November 5, 2020."?!?!

 

 

If your first choice firm calls you at 5pm - great, accept right away.

If your second choice (or further down) firm calls you at 5pm - ask for time to consider and say you'll get back to them as soon as you can. Then reach out to your first choice firm (if you haven't heard from them otherwise) and try to find out where you stand / if you'll be receiving an offer. You can try this with any firm ranked higher than the firm whose offer you're waiting on.

If you accept your second choice, and then later get an offer from your first choice - you've already accepted an offer and can't accept a different one now.

Basically, the rules generally mean that offers must be permitted to remain open for acceptance until 5pm the next day, BUT you should act in good faith and not sit on offers for no reason. Take the blackout period to really consider your options and make your preference rankings, then just do the best you can with whatever comes at 5.

I had this experience when I did the articling recruit years ago. My second choice employer (which happened to be my current summer employer) called me right at 5, and I said I needed time to consider, which they understood. Then I heard from my first choice firm, which told me I was next on their list if one person they had extended an offer to opted not to accept. I then had to wait, sitting on my first offer, for about two hours until my first choice firm could actually give me an answer. You just do the best you can. 

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35 minutes ago, TorontoJ said:

True but what if your top choice calls with an offer after 6 p.m. because a slot opened up due to a rejection and you've already now accepted your 2nd choice because you promised to get back to them asap. What then?

Once you've accepted an offer, you can't renege. So if you're waiting on your first choice firm, then hold on to that offer and don't accept it. Remember, if you have the offer, the power is in your hands. As I mention below, don't be a dick and leave offers open if you know for certain you'll accept/reject them, but if you're still considering the offer, the rules work in your favour and this is your time to be selfish.

I'm not participating in this cycle, but if I got an offer from a firm that was my second choice and was waiting on my first choice firm, I would call them and tell them you have another offer and ask them where you stand. At this point they're allowed to discuss it with you and can be very blunt. This will inform your decision-making process.

25 minutes ago, NZT said:

I was actually wondering the same thing.

The rules stipulate that "Students shall deal with offers received as expeditiously as possible regardless of the stipulated time that the offer shall be allowed to remain open", but how does that make sense if "All offers made at or after 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, shall be allowed to remain open until at least 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, November 5, 2020."?!?!

The whole point of this rule is for to prevent students who made a decision about which offer they will accept but haven't accepted that offer/rejected the others. This can also come up when a person is choosing between two firms, but may have four offers as an example - in that case the student should reject the offers they are not considering, but can leave the two open that they are debating between. To summarize, once you've made up your mind, accept the offer you want and reject the rest of the other offers.

Edited by georgecostanzajr
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32 minutes ago, TorontoJ said:

True but what if your top choice calls with an offer after 6 p.m. because a slot opened up due to a rejection and you've already now accepted your 2nd choice because you promised to get back to them asap. What then?

Yes, that's the problem.  You can just wait until you hear back from your first choice and find out if that the other student accepted or if they are now making you an offer because they've rejected. An hour is fine. I think a bigger problem is if the other student takes much longer. I'm not sure how to word this to the callers though. And I'm not sure how forthcoming firms will be- will they tell you how high up on the 'wait list' you are?

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9 minutes ago, retakelsat said:

Yes, that's the problem.  You can just wait until you hear back from your first choice and find out if that the other student accepted or if they are now making you an offer because they've rejected. An hour is fine. I think a bigger problem is if the other student takes much longer. I'm not sure how to word this to the callers though. And I'm not sure how forthcoming firms will be- will they tell you how high up on the 'wait list' you are?

Wording to the caller who gave you the offer: "thank you so much, I really appreciate the call, etc., I just need a few minutes to consider the offer. I'll make a decision as soon as possible." They'll probably ask you what else you'd like to know or what they can do to help you make your decision - just say you will be in touch and you need a few minutes to think about it.

Wording to the firm that's your first choice: "I have an offer that I'm holding onto but your firm is my first choice, can you please tell me where I stand?"

After 5pm, the firms will be forthright with you about where you stand as the rules do not prevent them from disclosing that information at that point. If they're not, assume they're not interested. As a last resort, if they're clearly avoiding answering the question about where you stand, just thank them for interviewing you and say you'll accept your other offer in that case. If they truly are interested in you, they'll tell you to hold off on accepting the offer. If not, you're not on their radar.

Edited by georgecostanzajr
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4 minutes ago, georgecostanzajr said:

Wording to the caller who gave you the offer: "thank you so much, I really appreciate the call, etc., I just need a few minutes to consider the offer. I'll make a decision as soon as possible." They'll probably ask you what else you'd like to know or what they can do to help you make your decision - just say you will be in touch and you need a few minutes to think about it.

Wording to the firm that's your first choice: "I have an offer that I'm holding onto but your firm is my first choice, can you please tell me where I stand?"

After 5pm, the firms will be forthright with you about where you stand as the rules do not prevent them from disclosing that information at that point. If they're not, assume they're not interested. As a last resort, if they're clearly avoiding answering the question about where you stand, just thank them for interviewing you and say you'll accept your other offer in that case. If they truly are interested in you, they'll tell you to hold off on accepting the offer. If not, you're not on their radar.

This is true. When my first choice firm told me I was next on their list in the event one other person rejected, and they knew I had another offer outstanding, I had the student coordinator and one of the lawyers calling me and asking me to hold off on accepting another offer.

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Is it safe to assume if you didn't receive a second interview from firms that were doing them that you won't get an offer? My friend received a PFO from a firm after her 1st interview, but I did not, however I also didn't receive a second interview so I am just wondering about chances. 

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10 minutes ago, barelylegal said:

This is true. When my first choice firm told me I was next on their list in the event one other person rejected, and they knew I had another offer outstanding, I had the student coordinator and one of the lawyers calling me and asking me to hold off on accepting another offer.

That's definitely reassuring but still confusing. Not sure if you can comment on the specifics, but did this happen because this firm(your first choice) gave an offer to another candidate that did not rank them as their first choice?

It seems kinda shady that the student coordinator/lawyer would knowingly give an offer to a candidate who did not use the words "first choice" & at the same time tell another candidate (that they knew said first choice) to hold off an accepting an offer because they "are interested in you". This whole process just seems like a big game right up until they very end

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4 minutes ago, tommygun said:

Is it safe to assume if you didn't receive a second interview from firms that were doing them that you won't get an offer? My friend received a PFO from a firm after her 1st interview, but I did not, however I also didn't receive a second interview so I am just wondering about chances. 

Do you know if they actually did second interviews? If they did not, it follows that you likely still rank somewhere on their list for candidates they are considering hiring! 

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1 hour ago, georgecostanzajr said:

Wording to the caller who gave you the offer: "thank you so much, I really appreciate the call, etc., I just need a few minutes to consider the offer. I'll make a decision as soon as possible." They'll probably ask you what else you'd like to know or what they can do to help you make your decision - just say you will be in touch and you need a few minutes to think about it.

Wording to the firm that's your first choice: "I have an offer that I'm holding onto but your firm is my first choice, can you please tell me where I stand?"

After 5pm, the firms will be forthright with you about where you stand as the rules do not prevent them from disclosing that information at that point. If they're not, assume they're not interested. As a last resort, if they're clearly avoiding answering the question about where you stand, just thank them for interviewing you and say you'll accept your other offer in that case. If they truly are interested in you, they'll tell you to hold off on accepting the offer. If not, you're not on their radar.

How do we get in touch with our first choice firm if we don't have a contact number? Do we try emailing them (i.e. to tell them we have an offer but that your firm is my first choice)?

Edited by JustHireMeAlready

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Hang on, people got PFOs after their interviews? I'm assuming not all firms did that though? Is there any comfort to be taken in not having received a PFO after your interview?

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9 minutes ago, TorontoJ said:

Is there any comfort to be taken in not having received a PFO after your interview?

Of course. It means you're in the running. That email would mean you're not, barring extremely unlikely circumstances.

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need advice: would you pick somewhere you are sort of interested in but has good job security, or pick somewhere you are more passionate about but has almost no prospect of hireback after articling? (assuming I get any calls lol) 

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1 minute ago, laws987654321 said:

need advice: would you pick somewhere you are sort of interested in but has good job security, or pick somewhere you are more passionate about but has almost no prospect of hireback after articling? (assuming I get any calls lol) 

Definitely the one you're more passionate about. Worry about life after articling when it comes, my friend. Just get the experience and prime yourself for success during your articling year and I'm positive you'll be fine!

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feeling shattered - no calls for me

Edited by NZT
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