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GMK8998

Civil law schools and My Degree Was Harder Than Yours (spliced)

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What school/program are you in? Depending on the program and school, a 3.00 may suffice. 

Edited by Hegdis
This is my title, spliced this topic

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4 hours ago, GMK8998 said:

What school/program are you in? Depending on the program and school, a 3.00 may suffice. 

What's the relevance of the program and school? 

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On 9/6/2020 at 10:28 PM, LawBlaw2019 said:

What's the relevance of the program and school? 

In applying to law school in general, suffice it to say that a degree in sociology does not necessarily equate in difficulty to that of a degree in finance or whatever. 

 

Schools such as McGill are indeed more reputable than UQAM or ConU

Edited by GMK8998
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1 hour ago, GMK8998 said:

In applying to law school in general, suffice it to say that a degree in sociology does not necessarily equate in difficulty to that of a degree in finance or whatever. 

 

Schools such as McGill are indeed more reputable than UQAM or ConU

Are you aware of any school that actually makes a distinction based upon that though? Every law school I've looked at is very clear that they don't discriminate between programmes or schools - a 3.0 from doing Basket-Weaving at UQÀM is the same as a 3.0 in Super Serious Science at McGill.

ETA: To be clear, I don't know anything about civil law schools, so that might be different.

Edited by PurplePanda
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1 hour ago, GMK8998 said:

In applying to law school in general, suffice it to say that a degree in sociology does not necessarily equate in difficulty to that of a degree in finance or whatever. 

 

Schools such as McGill are indeed more reputable than UQAM or ConU

This is flat out wrong and even if your assertions about difficulty of degree are indeed true (though your example is a strange one) it generally doesn’t matter for the purposes of admission.

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2 hours ago, GMK8998 said:

In applying to law school in general, suffice it to say that a degree in sociology does not necessarily equate in difficulty to that of a degree in finance or whatever. 

 

Schools such as McGill are indeed more reputable than UQAM or ConU

Although this is off topic from the initial discussion, I believe this is a very common stereotype amongst most universities, where certain degree choices are undermined because of the assumption that their "difficulty" level is not adequate compared to sciences for example. I think that if you were to ask someone in sciences to write an argumentative essay, they would struggle as equally as someone from arts trying to learn biology or chemistry. Therefore, I would find it extremely concerning if universities considered your degree choice as a factor in whether your GPA is adequate. All degrees encompass a wide range of specific skills that some people have and others don't but this is just my opinion.

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I feel attacked. I have been monitoring these threads for the past few years now, and I can almost say with certainty that anecdotally, at least within civil law schools, this is very much the case. 
 

It has to do with indice de force, and other parameters that may equate to a different grading scheme created and solely used by a specific university, similar to Université Laval’s Cote Laval. 

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14 minutes ago, GMK8998 said:

I feel attacked. I have been monitoring these threads for the past few years now, and I can almost say with certainty that anecdotally, at least within civil law schools, this is very much the case. 
 

It has to do with indice de force, and other parameters that may equate to a different grading scheme created and solely used by a specific university, similar to Université Laval’s Cote Laval. 

You made a general claim that is widely known to be false. Maybe things are different at civil law schools, but that isn’t what you initially claimed.

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I don't know anything about civil law. 

As far as I know, common law schools don't really differentiate between a difficult or easy program.  

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I have spliced this from the original discussion and added my own title. This argument pops up about a hundred times every cycle. 

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FWIW, some civil law schools DO consider some programs "more difficult" and will add a  bit to your Cote R. It isn't anecdotal - Sherbrooke used to release the chart. To be frank, to posters reading this, if you don't know what a Cote-R is, then don't bother discussing because this is only relevant to Québec law schools like Sherbrooke and UdM.

Though, @GMK8998, there are programs at UQAM and Con U that are waaaaay more reputable than McGill or UdM. Communication Studies at Concordia and UQAM, fine arts (at both), John Molson at Con U, Exercise Science at Con U,  Social Work at UQAM is pretty well respected.

 

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For anyone who's curious, Laval outlines the the calculation of their Laval Score (seemingly an internal Cote-R for university studies) here. They don't seem to control for which institution you went to, but they absolutely do discriminate between programmes; according to the table an A+ average in Human Resources Management converts to a 26, whereas an A+ average in architecture would net you a 40. Strangely, according to their documents they base the difficulty of each university programme on the CEGEP Cote-R  of students who were admitted into that programme. Fascinatingly different from the ROC approach of treating all programmes as equal.

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19 hours ago, PurplePanda said:

 Strangely, according to their documents they base the difficulty of each university programme on the CEGEP Cote-R  of students who were admitted into that programme. Fascinatingly different from the ROC approach of treating all programmes as equal.

The R-Score attempts to resolve many complaints people have about GPA. The Indice de force is used to account for the propensity of your colleagues to succeed. If you're the Slowest Skater in the NHL you're probably still a better skater than the best skater in the Law School's inter-mural hockey league. This factor is used to control for the group you are being compared to. They measure it based on CEGEP results because its the only data point they have for how "smart" your class mates are. In CEGEP they use high school averages to calculate this factor. 

In a perfect world the R-Score would be fair way to compare how you are performing. It compares how much above or below average you are, and accounts who you are being measured against (NHL v beer league v something in between). This would control for one school inflating grades (if you get an A+ and your class average is an A+, you wont have a great R-Score), or one with a harsh curve if you have a C+ in a class with a D- average you'll have a much better one). 

The application of R-Score to university is much less perfect, unlike in CEGEP I don't think they have the data to calculate it correctly. In CEGEP they compare you to your class average, and the strength of the people that took that class. It is calculated by the Quebec ministry of education, and they have access to everyone's data. When evaluating a university transcript, Laval wouldn't have this information, and they seem to have just substituted it for information from their own students. This seems to defeat the purpose. 

What I do find interesting is that according to the table, in most programs you still need to be between A- and a B+ to be competitive.  Even in fields that people argue are more difficult like Engineering or Science, a B+ would leave you noncompetitive (B. MECH ENG B+ = 28.029, B-BIO B+ = 27.156) accepted seems to be around 29.7. This seems quite consistent with the results of the approach taken in the ROC. (although based on accepted threads from previous years, there seems to be some flexibility, as I have seen people with 3.3's and lower getting in). 

The closest thing I could find to basket weaving is C. Arts Plastique, an A+ would yield a Cote-R of 28.282, well shy of the 29.7 to make it past the post. I suspect they would give a bonus though if it was "underwater". 

 

 

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Ottawas civil law school goes off your raw average  rather than R score or GPA

just throwing that in the mix for information purposes. 

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On 9/10/2020 at 12:02 PM, lawgic1 said:

Ottawas civil law school goes off your raw average  rather than R score or GPA

just throwing that in the mix for information purposes. 

How would one calculate their raw average, utilizing their GPA?

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Also, perhaps I am in the wrong thread, however,  do universities (civil and/or common) still take into account upward grade trends? 

My term GPAs have been 2.8-3.18-3.52-3.92 for a cGPA of 3.36. 

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46 minutes ago, GMK8998 said:

Also, perhaps I am in the wrong thread, however,  do universities (civil and/or common) still take into account upward grade trends? 

My term GPAs have been 2.8-3.18-3.52-3.92 for a cGPA of 3.36. 

I believe it would technically count as a soft but not for much else. 

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1 hour ago, GMK8998 said:

As a soft? Can you explain this haha.

Softs are basically anything that contributes to your application outside of GPA / LSAT and can have a varying level of effect depending on the category you seek admission through (ie general, access, mature, indigenous, etc.)

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