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tfalco

Chances, 3.29 CGPA high LSAT

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Hi!

I'm about to start my fourth year of undergrad, and have recently began studying for the LSAT, which I will be writing in October. I know that my GPA is rather low at 3.29 (not sure about B2 or L2, but it likely won't be drastically better), however I have done several full timed LSAT Practice Tests, and am consistently scoring in the 170's. My first diagnostic test with little to no studying was a 173.

My question is, what would my chances be at some of the top Ontario schools, like Osgoode or U of T? And what LSAT would I need to aim for?

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Posted (edited)

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

Edited by CleanHands
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Posted (edited)

Please be realistic with yourself that actually attaining an official 170+ LSAT score is a very different from scoring a 170+ on a diagnostic test. If your claim is true that your first diagnostic was 173, you could have an aptitude for the test and may not need to study for as long nor as hard as the average applicant. Nonetheless, until you take the LSAT you will not know how test day pressures effect you, nor how you will respond to unexpectedly challenging questions and/or rare question types in the real moment. Most people's (not all) first official LSAT score is 1-3 percentile points lower than their most recent diagnostic. 

Continuing on, I will echo what @CleanHands said above; UofT is likely entirely out of the picture for you. If you can score atleast 170 I think you have a decent shot at every other Ontario school. However, even if you score in the mid 160s I'd say apply as your stats would not overlap with most schools "auto-reject" thresholds and you may be able to make a compelling case for yourself through reference letters and your personal statement(s) / sketch.

Edited by LabouriousCorvid
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19 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

Thanks for the response! I figured that might be the case, just thought I'd ask.

And yes of course everything is currently hypothetical, so I know that everything could easily change.

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11 minutes ago, LabouriousCorvid said:

Nonetheless, until you take the LSAT you will not know how test day pressures effect you or how you will respond to unexpectedly challenging questions and/or rare question types in the real moment. Most people's (not all) first LSAT score is 1-3 percentile points lower than their diagnostic. 

Continuing on, I will echo what @CleanHands said above; UofT is likely entirely out of the picture for you. If you can score atleast 170 I think you have a decent shot at every other Ontario school. However, even if you score in the mid 160s I'd say apply as your stats would not overlap with most schools "auto-reject" thresholds and you may be able to make a compelling case for yourself through reference letters and your personal statement(s) / sketch.

Thanks for the advice. I also want to say that I hope I didn't come across as arrogant, and I understand that I haven't actually written the LSAT yet. I'm just going off of whatever information I have, and I know that practice tests will never be the same as the real thing.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, tfalco said:

Thanks for the advice. I also want to say that I hope I didn't come across as arrogant, and I understand that I haven't actually written the LSAT yet. I'm just going off of whatever information I have, and I know that practice tests will never be the same as the real thing.

Not at all, don't worry about it! I try to keep in mind lurkers read these threads as well as the OP and contributors, so I typically write my comments in threads like this in a way that they are not only helpful for the OP, but others less informed on the law school admissions process as well.

Edited by LabouriousCorvid
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1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

This is interesting. Is there an accuracy issue with the admission predictor on lawapplicants.ca? I'm just asking because this algorithm would potentially indicate otherwise, and I would like to gauge my own personal admission chances realistically. Also, what would be considered a high LSAT splitter? I haven't done extensive research on UofT admissions, but would you consider my split of 3.59 GPA, 174 LSAT score to be of concern?

I've included the link below if you want to check it out:

 https://lawapplicants.ca/predictor

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2 minutes ago, MTkachukisg0at said:

Is there an accuracy issue with the admission predictor on lawapplicants.ca? I'm just asking because this algorithm would potentially indicate otherwise, and I would like to gauge my own personal admission chances realistically.

I'm not really sure about your stats, but I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the accuracy of the predictor would go down the more drastic the "split" is, since there are a lot fewer people with extreme discrepancies and therefore less data.

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11 minutes ago, tfalco said:

I'm not really sure about your stats, but I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the accuracy of the predictor would go down the more drastic the "split" is, since there are a lot fewer people with extreme discrepancies and therefore less data.

I suppose that makes sense. I would imagine that these predictors simply indicate what schools are realistic, but are far from a definitive predictor of your exact chances. Thanks!

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I know someone who was getting 170+ consistently on practice tests, and got a 160 on the real thing.

I wouldn't torture yourself about your chances until you have an actual official LSAT score to work with.

I got into law school with a 3.0 CGPA and a 164 LSAT. I applied broadly, got waitlisted at 3 schools, and was accepted to one of my top choices shortly after. If you play the numbers game and apply everywhere, your chances are higher.

Of course, you have to consider whether you're willing and able to move across the country if you have to.

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I'd say no for UofT, but I could definitely see you getting in somewhere if you actually scored that on test day. 

Of course, practice tests are sometimes pretty far off the mark. The one I did a day or two before my test I got a 153, and on the actual test I got a 160. I believe more people have the reverse happen, though.

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On 8/1/2020 at 7:14 PM, lh22 said:

I'd say no for UofT, but I could definitely see you getting in somewhere if you actually scored that on test day. 

Of course, practice tests are sometimes pretty far off the mark. The one I did a day or two before my test I got a 153, and on the actual test I got a 160. I believe more people have the reverse happen, though.

Congrats on the 160!

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45 minutes ago, AllanRC said:

Congrats on the 160!

We meet again, lol. At risk of derailing the thread a bit, thanks. 

To add something constructive for OP: since you're regularly scoring 170+ on PTs, for blatantly apparent reasons I have limited advice to give you on studying. But since the one edge I do have is that I've taken the LSAT already, and October is coming up quickly, I will advise you to not stress out. This sounds like an obvious statement. But I was woken up by horrible nausea at 5:30 AM the day of, and would recommend avoiding having this happen to you. I got myself to relax once I let myself understand that I can just take the damn thing again if I need to and life carries on no matter what. I didn't score my best, but well enough that I'm giving this round a try. As other posters have said, even if you also wound up not at the top of your game, you might still be competitive. Keep working hard on studying, but enjoy the rest of your summer and the start of your final year where you can.

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