Jump to content
tfalco

Chances, 3.29 CGPA high LSAT

Recommended Posts

Hi!

I'm about to start my fourth year of undergrad, and have recently began studying for the LSAT, which I will be writing in October. I know that my GPA is rather low at 3.29 (not sure about B2 or L2, but it likely won't be drastically better), however I have done several full timed LSAT Practice Tests, and am consistently scoring in the 170's. My first diagnostic test with little to no studying was a 173.

My question is, what would my chances be at some of the top Ontario schools, like Osgoode or U of T? And what LSAT would I need to aim for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

Edited by CleanHands
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Please be realistic with yourself that actually attaining an official 170+ LSAT score is a very different from scoring a 170+ on a diagnostic test. If your claim is true that your first diagnostic was 173, you could have an aptitude for the test and may not need to study for as long nor as hard as the average applicant. Nonetheless, until you take the LSAT you will not know how test day pressures effect you, nor how you will respond to unexpectedly challenging questions and/or rare question types in the real moment. Most people's (not all) first official LSAT score is 1-3 percentile points lower than their most recent diagnostic. 

Continuing on, I will echo what @CleanHands said above; UofT is likely entirely out of the picture for you. If you can score atleast 170 I think you have a decent shot at every other Ontario school. However, even if you score in the mid 160s I'd say apply as your stats would not overlap with most schools "auto-reject" thresholds and you may be able to make a compelling case for yourself through reference letters and your personal statement(s) / sketch.

Edited by LabouriousCorvid
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

Thanks for the response! I figured that might be the case, just thought I'd ask.

And yes of course everything is currently hypothetical, so I know that everything could easily change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, LabouriousCorvid said:

Nonetheless, until you take the LSAT you will not know how test day pressures effect you or how you will respond to unexpectedly challenging questions and/or rare question types in the real moment. Most people's (not all) first LSAT score is 1-3 percentile points lower than their diagnostic. 

Continuing on, I will echo what @CleanHands said above; UofT is likely entirely out of the picture for you. If you can score atleast 170 I think you have a decent shot at every other Ontario school. However, even if you score in the mid 160s I'd say apply as your stats would not overlap with most schools "auto-reject" thresholds and you may be able to make a compelling case for yourself through reference letters and your personal statement(s) / sketch.

Thanks for the advice. I also want to say that I hope I didn't come across as arrogant, and I understand that I haven't actually written the LSAT yet. I'm just going off of whatever information I have, and I know that practice tests will never be the same as the real thing.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, tfalco said:

Thanks for the advice. I also want to say that I hope I didn't come across as arrogant, and I understand that I haven't actually written the LSAT yet. I'm just going off of whatever information I have, and I know that practice tests will never be the same as the real thing.

Not at all, don't worry about it! I try to keep in mind lurkers read these threads as well as the OP and contributors, so I typically write my comments in threads like this in a way that they are not only helpful for the OP, but others less informed on the law school admissions process as well.

Edited by LabouriousCorvid
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

I can confidently say you'll be out at UofT and no LSAT score will change that, I'm sorry to say. They do not like high LSAT splitters.

Other schools are harder to predict where splitters are concerned, especially with your stats being hypothetical at this point. But in any event, you'll for sure be able to get in somewhere in Canada with a 170+ LSAT if you apply broadly.

This is interesting. Is there an accuracy issue with the admission predictor on lawapplicants.ca? I'm just asking because this algorithm would potentially indicate otherwise, and I would like to gauge my own personal admission chances realistically. Also, what would be considered a high LSAT splitter? I haven't done extensive research on UofT admissions, but would you consider my split of 3.59 GPA, 174 LSAT score to be of concern?

I've included the link below if you want to check it out:

 https://lawapplicants.ca/predictor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MTkachukisg0at said:

Is there an accuracy issue with the admission predictor on lawapplicants.ca? I'm just asking because this algorithm would potentially indicate otherwise, and I would like to gauge my own personal admission chances realistically.

I'm not really sure about your stats, but I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the accuracy of the predictor would go down the more drastic the "split" is, since there are a lot fewer people with extreme discrepancies and therefore less data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, tfalco said:

I'm not really sure about your stats, but I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the accuracy of the predictor would go down the more drastic the "split" is, since there are a lot fewer people with extreme discrepancies and therefore less data.

I suppose that makes sense. I would imagine that these predictors simply indicate what schools are realistic, but are far from a definitive predictor of your exact chances. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know someone who was getting 170+ consistently on practice tests, and got a 160 on the real thing.

I wouldn't torture yourself about your chances until you have an actual official LSAT score to work with.

I got into law school with a 3.0 CGPA and a 164 LSAT. I applied broadly, got waitlisted at 3 schools, and was accepted to one of my top choices shortly after. If you play the numbers game and apply everywhere, your chances are higher.

Of course, you have to consider whether you're willing and able to move across the country if you have to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say no for UofT, but I could definitely see you getting in somewhere if you actually scored that on test day. 

Of course, practice tests are sometimes pretty far off the mark. The one I did a day or two before my test I got a 153, and on the actual test I got a 160. I believe more people have the reverse happen, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/1/2020 at 7:14 PM, lh22 said:

I'd say no for UofT, but I could definitely see you getting in somewhere if you actually scored that on test day. 

Of course, practice tests are sometimes pretty far off the mark. The one I did a day or two before my test I got a 153, and on the actual test I got a 160. I believe more people have the reverse happen, though.

Congrats on the 160!

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, AllanRC said:

Congrats on the 160!

We meet again, lol. At risk of derailing the thread a bit, thanks. 

To add something constructive for OP: since you're regularly scoring 170+ on PTs, for blatantly apparent reasons I have limited advice to give you on studying. But since the one edge I do have is that I've taken the LSAT already, and October is coming up quickly, I will advise you to not stress out. This sounds like an obvious statement. But I was woken up by horrible nausea at 5:30 AM the day of, and would recommend avoiding having this happen to you. I got myself to relax once I let myself understand that I can just take the damn thing again if I need to and life carries on no matter what. I didn't score my best, but well enough that I'm giving this round a try. As other posters have said, even if you also wound up not at the top of your game, you might still be competitive. Keep working hard on studying, but enjoy the rest of your summer and the start of your final year where you can.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Recent Posts

    • Hi all,   I am going to be applying to law school for Fall 2021 and I am considering rewriting my LSAT to make up for a less-than-stellar GPA. Only thing is that I am not sure how much a higher LSAT can compensate for my GPA. My stats are 3.4/4.3 GPA and 163 LSAT. I also have a lot of personal circumstances that resulted in my lower GPA. As for my last 2 years, I'm not sure how that would be calculated because I went on exchange in my second semester and my grades were converted back as pass/fail (if anyone has any input on this, I would appreciate it greatly).    Here are the schools I'd like to apply to: - UBC (dream school) - UVic - uOttawa - York - Ryerson - Dalhousie  I went to undergrad at Queen's (Commerce) & hated my life there so I would like to stay in a relatively major city with lots of diversity. My goal is to be a prosecutor for BC (and settle down in Vancouver area) & I have zero interest in any sort of corporate/big law. I realize that Victoria and Halifax may not have a lot of diversity but I love the variety of outdoor activities in those areas so I'm ok with attending.    Thank you!! 
    • Cool, thanks, that means I'll deal with the Writing Sample after the actual LSAT  (so I won't be mixing the "pleasures") How many times can one redo the Writing Sample and do law schools actually care about the Writing Sample (I'll be applying in Ontario, Canada)? 
    • Just a short question if nobody minds: what does (-9) actually mean? Does it mean that you get 9 wrong answers (including here the questions you did not have time to answer) in that particular section?   Thanks! 
    • That's really good to know. I'm going on 3L and have been with Scotiabank, but keeping the LOC open after graduation is something I was hoping would be possible. Has anyone with Scotiabank been able to negotiate for this? 
    • This past spring, I graduated from a Canadian law school. I was never offered a single interview throughout my time in law school (still waiting on one). However, I am an anomaly, as most students do end up getting summer jobs and articles. So, you should be fine. Nevertheless, I have chosen to share some advice below (which you can choose to ignore or take with a grain of salt) so that you don't end up in my position.    ALL THAT MATTERS ARE YOUR FIRST YEAR GRADES: For some reason, employers prioritize first year grades above all else, so there may not be an opportunity for improvement going forward. Even during my third year, my career advisor informed me that some employers would not consider me due to bad first year grades (had A's, B-'s and C+'s). Not to stress you out, but this is the most important thing, your law school grades. Everything else pales in comparison for employers. The best way to think about this is a life opportunity, not school/classes. If you put in the work for the first 4 months, you can go from working somewhere like fast food to an office downtown.  All that matters are your grades.     Undergrad Major/Past Work Experience: These don't matter. Although you may think your degree/experience is relevant for a law job (business, sciences, etc.) all that matters are your law school grades.  All that matters are your grades.  Undergrad Transcript: This may play a factor during the first recruit in December. But you have to remember that likely everyone has terrific undergrad grades. However, if you don't have good first semester law grades, employers won't even bother glancing at your undergrad transcript.    All that matters are your grades. LSAT Score: This only somewhat matters up until December of your first year. Again, if you don't have good first semester grades, employers won't even bother looking at it.  All that matters are your grades.  Law School: Turns out this doesn't matter. I used to think that employers held places like U of T in high regard while looking down on TRU. Simply not the case. You don't even have to attend law school in the city you ultimately want to practice in. At the end of the day, all employers care about is your grades, not your law school (provided it's in Canada).  All that matters are your grades. CANS: Use them, someone has already done the heavy lifting for you. An important skill in law school is time management, so you will want to work efficiently. The best approach I can suggest is to use a CAN, and add/delete content as needed. I would add that this is something you should do throughout the semester, rather than during exam month.  All that matters are your grades. Textbooks: If you're using a CAN, you likely won't need these. You can find briefs/summaries of nearly every single case online. Not to mention, law books are pretty pricey and some profs don't even end up using them that much. All that matters are your grades. Class Attendance: Not sure how this will work during the COVID era. You can likely base this decision off the first week or month of classes depending on the prof (whether they grade it). Though, you shouldn't worry about having to attend every class, the review classes at the end of term are the most important. All that matters are your grades.   Class Selection: Classes that test your legal research and writing skills are the ones you'll want to take. However, you should shop for easy classes until you've secured employment. Employers also don't care about good law grades in classes that are relevant for a job posting, they will examine your entire transcript.  All that matters are your grades.      Extracurricular/Clubs: The only really useful activities involve research papers (for profs), moots, and court experience. Anything outside of these may not really help in terms of finding a job.    All that matters are your grades.  Prof References: If you actively email a prof or visit their office, it might be a good idea to ask for a reference letter. But, this ultimately depends on the prof. Some hand out references (both letters and for school transfers) like Halloween candy, while others will only do so for a handful of students.  All that matters are your grades.  Exams: You should spent at least one weekend figuring out how to write a law school exam. Use Google, ask your prof, and so forth.  All that matters are your grades.  Networking: You don't need to do this once you've obtained good grades. Nonetheless, attend every law school event you can that features employers. Ask lawyers (by email) if you can call them (or Zoom) to talk about their practice. It might be beneficial to try and network with at least 1 lawyer at each firm in the city you want to practice in. But, you should know that lawyers are inherently self-interested people and networking isn't guaranteed to lead to job interviews.   All that matters are your grades.  Career Services: There is only so much these people can do for you. I would drop-in at least once for a resume tune-up, but that's about it.  All that matters are your grades.  Big Law: Although you may hear complaints about long days/billable hours, this is the place you'll want to be. The only direction you can go from here is down to small firms, in house counsel, public practice, etc. (wherever you want). Whereas, trying to make a move to big law later in your career is virtually impossible. All that matters are your grades.  You MUST Summer: If you don't land a job during the first year recruit, start reaching out to employers in your second semester. I would recommend summering at any law firm, any size, at any place (go overseas if you have to). Summering is a good time for students to understand the basics and be able to learn from their mistakes. You may not be afforded such an opportunity during articles, as firms gauge your performance for hireback. More importantly, summering increases your chances of obtaining an articling position.    All that matters are your grades.  Diversity: If you're white, you'll likely be alright lol. If that statement made you roll your eyes just take a look at any law firm in any major Canadian city. If you're not white, you should know that law firms still want "the right fit" when considering diversity. Consider using a white nickname on your resume as research studies have shown this increases your chances at an interview.  All that matters are your grades.  Law Grades: One last time, these are all that matter. Simple Formula: Good grades => interviews => summer position => articles => legal career. Once you have secured articles, you can coast (B average) the rest of the way through law school. 

×
×
  • Create New...