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happycamper55

Dilemma!! Chances: 3.94 B3/CGPA and 162 LSAT

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Hi friends! 

I am a student about to enter my fourth year of political science. I have a 3.94 CGPA so far (so that's my B3, and my university scales GPA the same way OLSAS does) and I took the first ever digital LSAT in July 2019, got a 160 (BOMBED the life out of games, had a huge 2 hour delay, day 2 of period, very unfortunate experience), cancelled it for the free retake that was being offered, retook in Jan and got a 162 (messed up on logic games again, on preptests i was scoring semi-consistently in the higher 160s). I also did exchange this semester that ended up being cancelled midway that isn't part of the calculation but is considered, and received all As there too, which was the max grade at the school. 

I have good extracurriculars (I think?), I have a GOOD amount of adversity that I can discuss in my personal statement. I'm also not sure if UofT considers the hell of grade deflation that my university puts undergrad poli sci kids through, but it's alright if they don't.

The situation:

Right now, i have 2 months of free summer before admissions begin, and I am considering retaking my LSAT to fatten my chances (please don't argue with me about the time frame, 2 months is enough time for me for sure, i just hate the weight of studying for this test so much). It would cost me around 6 or 700 Canadian dollars total, which is kind of a financial hit but a manageable one. I didn't retake it because I was going on exchange and knew I couldn't afford UofT and crossed it off as an option, but I now realize that I'd get a boatload of bursaries, and I found out about the existence of the Professional Student Line of Credit. So, I have become insanely attached to the idea of UofT. I have slaved and bled myself dry to stay in the top of my class in order to feel flexible in my choice of law school, and I feel like the LSAT is holding me back. But I do know that UofT recommends not retaking when you're above 85th percentile because you probably won't improve over 3 points. I can't say whether I would, honestly. I think if I fixed my games inconsistency issue I could do it as I've scored up to 171 on PTs before (only once over 170 lol) and I had a good chunk of high 160s in my preptests, but my scores did fluctuate a bit primarily due to games, and my RC is a little wonky. I just feel so insecure about the score and I feel that I will regret not retaking it if I get rejected.

Am I being irrational? What do you guys think of my chances? I know success stories exist from scaling through the accepted and rejected pages, but I worry I'm really risking it here by not wanting to retake it, and would like to know if I'm any kind of candidate in the first place in case i end up getting around the same score on my (possible) next LSAT. I also really wanted to take this time to get my personal statement and LORs in order, but maybe that won't take too long. Also, my alternative here is Osgoode.

I know this is a lot of detail, but thank you to anyone who has any input on this! I only have a few days to make this life-altering decision so any help is helpful! 

Edited by whereverjustice
minor anonymizing edits at poster's request

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You definitely have a chance as is but as I’m sure you know from the accepted threads nothing guarantees you a spot at u of t. Definitely improving your score to 164+ will strengthen your chances. For reference, I was waitlisted at u of t with a 162 and 3.72 cGPA. You’d probably get in to all the other law schools in Ontario as is. You just have to decide whether or not you want to spend this summer studying again (it’s not like there’s that much else to do anyways given the pandemic) and how important it is that you go to u of t. If you do write again, you should probably get a tutor and/or change your RC/games strategy. 

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Why not go to McGill. It sounds like finances are a significant consideration for you (or at least, they should be), and McGill’s tuition is markedly cheaper than U of T. 

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2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Why not go to McGill. It sounds like finances are a significant consideration for you (or at least, they should be), and McGill’s tuition is markedly cheaper than U of T. 

I did consider it due to their very attractive tuition, but I don't have an interest in learning civil law, and I prefer to return to Toronto! Thanks for the suggestion, though! 

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I got in with a lower b3 (3.79) and the same LSAT. You definitely have a shot but like others have mentioned I think it's worth retaking if you really want to put your best foot forward. 

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4 hours ago, Pls said:

You definitely have a chance as is but as I’m sure you know from the accepted threads nothing guarantees you a spot at u of t. Definitely improving your score to 164+ will strengthen your chances. For reference, I was waitlisted at u of t with a 162 and 3.72 cGPA. You’d probably get in to all the other law schools in Ontario as is. You just have to decide whether or not you want to spend this summer studying again (it’s not like there’s that much else to do anyways given the pandemic) and how important it is that you go to u of t. If you do write again, you should probably get a tutor and/or change your RC/games strategy. 

Thank you! Sadly, a tutor is far out of my price range, but I plan to hit the powerscore bible for a new games strategy and hopefully that would help! 

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3 minutes ago, OnlyResident said:

I got in with a lower b3 (3.79) and the same LSAT. You definitely have a shot but like others have mentioned I think it's worth retaking if you really want to put your best foot forward. 

Thanks for responding! Did you have anything else in your application that you think made a significant contribution to being accepted?

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20 minutes ago, happycamper55 said:

I did consider it due to their very attractive tuition, but I don't have an interest in learning civil law, and I prefer to return to Toronto! Thanks for the suggestion, though! 

Does your disinterest in civil law outweigh the 150-200k tuition money you will pay out to U of T? 

McGill grads do just fine in Toronto and anywhere else in Canada. 

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4 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

Does your disinterest in civil law outweigh the 150-200k tuition money you will pay out to U of T? 

McGill grads do just fine in Toronto and anywhere else in Canada. 

I actually would not pay anywhere close to that amount to UofT, and there are some other personal reasons that factor into my choice to return to Toronto rather than to stay in Montreal, as much as I love it! 

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Take the LSAT again if you really want to go to UofT. It sounds like logic games are your main issue, something that's only exacerbated by the stress of test day. I was the exact same way and ended up canceling my first LSAT due to a complete implosion on the games section. If you really want to push up to and past that 170 threshold, games need to become second nature. The method I recommend is the double-blind review. You can use Powerscore (or whatever book's) diagramming techniques for linear, grouping, etc. Double-blind review simply refers to the way you attack the games, only completely moving on from a game when you've finished it perfectly under timed conditions. Your goal is to then buy 30-40 practice tests and complete as many games as possible in the next two months. The folks at 7sage describe it much better than I can: https://7sage.com/how-to-get-a-perfect-score-on-the-logic-games/

 

Games were the bane of my existence, but once I adopted this method and began to take them in little pockets during the day, my scores steadily improved up to the 170 mark. It's much harder to lose your nerve on test-day with a tricky grouping game when you've logged 45 perfect grouping games. All that being said, I echo the other commenters: UofT is a great school (I'm headed there myself), but it's one of many fantastic schools in Canada. And if you're goal is Toronto post-grad, Queens, Western, Osgoode, and host of other schools will get you there too, probably with more money in your pocket. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, pierremenard said:

Take the LSAT again if you really want to go to UofT. It sounds like logic games are your main issue, something that's only exacerbated by the stress of test day. I was the exact same way and ended up canceling my first LSAT due to a complete implosion on the games section. If you really want to push up to and past that 170 threshold, games need to become second nature. The method I recommend is the double-blind review. You can use Powerscore (or whatever book's) diagramming techniques for linear, grouping, etc. Double-blind review simply refers to the way you attack the games, only completely moving on from a game when you've finished it perfectly under timed conditions. Your goal is to then buy 30-40 practice tests and complete as many games as possible in the next two months. The folks at 7sage describe it much better than I can: https://7sage.com/how-to-get-a-perfect-score-on-the-logic-games/

 

Games were the bane of my existence, but once I adopted this method and began to take them in little pockets during the day, my scores steadily improved up to the 170 mark. It's much harder to lose your nerve on test-day with a tricky grouping game when you've logged 45 perfect grouping games. All that being said, I echo the other commenters: UofT is a great school (I'm headed there myself), but it's one of many fantastic schools in Canada. And if you're goal is Toronto post-grad, Queens, Western, Osgoode, and host of other schools will get you there too, probably with more money in your pocket. 

 

 

 

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your advice! I think I used the blind review method at the initial point of my studying and then got frustrated with it and stopped (I study with 7sage, actually). I agree with you that I should continue with it! Congratulations on your acceptance, and thank you again for the information!

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1 hour ago, happycamper55 said:

Thank you! Sadly, a tutor is far out of my price range, but I plan to hit the powerscore bible for a new games strategy and hopefully that would help! 

Even one session with an experienced tutor may help! They may be able to identify what you’re doing wrong and give you new strategies. Reach out to current/former law students, they may be willing to help for free/cheap. 

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1 hour ago, happycamper55 said:

Thanks for responding! Did you have anything else in your application that you think made a significant contribution to being accepted?

I volunteered a bit, was an exec, vp and president of a student club throughout undergrad, did 2 undergraduate thesis courses, was also from a low income background and worked all throughout undergrad. Talked about why l wanted to pursue law in my personal statement and nothing else (didn't mention ECs or other qualifications that would have made me a suitable candidate). Wrote the optional essay as well going into one of the thesis courses. Overall, I felt like a pretty typical law school applicant.

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No guarantees with UofT, people with very high stats (3.9 and 170s) are rejected every year and people with lower stats get in. 

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18 minutes ago, SamSam1995 said:

No guarantees with UofT, people with very high stats (3.9 and 170s) are rejected every year and people with lower stats get in. 

Rejected with  3.9 and 170?

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Don't underestimate the significance of your 3.94, that's going to carry a ton of weight (and in recent years, U of T has placed more emphasis on GPA than LSAT). I think you have great chances with a strong and compelling personal statement. 

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On 6/25/2020 at 1:19 PM, e0813 said:

Don't underestimate the significance of your 3.94, that's going to carry a ton of weight (and in recent years, U of T has placed more emphasis on GPA than LSAT). I think you have great chances with a strong and compelling personal statement. 

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate it! 

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