Jump to content
MBows94

Chances with low GPA (2.75) and L60 (3.06)

Recommended Posts

Just curious as to what my chances would be with this poor of a GPA? I have 2 years of international work experience and a fair bit of volunteer experience if that helps my cause. Obviously my goal on the LSAT would have to be a minimum 160 but I'm open to basically anywhere in Canada. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MBows94 said:

Just curious as to what my chances would be with this poor of a GPA? I have 2 years of international work experience and a fair bit of volunteer experience if that helps my cause. Obviously my goal on the LSAT would have to be a minimum 160 but I'm open to basically anywhere in Canada. 

Get you L2 GPA to 3.5+ / 4.0 and LSAT 160+ then you will have a shot to some law schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a plenty of people who have gone abroad to Australia, the UK, and the US with low GPA's then done well on return to Canada and have been successful in articling and setting up a practice.  In Canada, maybe law schools are a bit more selective and competitive. You can do an accelerated law degree in 2 years abroad, do the NCAs in a year, and article or LPP for a year after that.  GPA is not as much of an issue for foreign schools as is the ability to pay.  Also, Canada's legal market is really small compared to the USA and UK for example, so you do not lose much by going abroad.   

 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TheGeneral said:

There are a plenty of people who have gone abroad to Australia, the UK, and the US with low GPA's then done well on return to Canada and have been successful in articling and setting up a practice.  In Canada, maybe law schools are a bit more selective and competitive. You can do an accelerated law degree in 2 years abroad, do the NCAs in a year, and article or LPP for a year after that.  GPA is not as much of an issue for foreign schools as is the ability to pay.  Also, Canada's legal market is really small compared to the USA and UK for example, so you do not lose much by going abroad.   

OP, just to avoid any problems - the above is considered to be bad advice by pretty much everyone on this forum, and the person who posted it doesn't seem to be in a good position to argue to the contrary. 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, whereverjustice said:

OP, just to avoid any problems - the above is considered to be bad advice by pretty much everyone on this forum, and the person who posted it doesn't seem to be in a good position to argue to the contrary. 

Thank you 'whereverjustice".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last I checked the top Constitutional guy in Canada, Peter Hogg was a lawyer from New Zealand.  How many people know of him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, TheGeneral said:

Last I checked the top Constitutional guy in Canada, Peter Hogg was a lawyer from New Zealand.  How many people know of him?

Peter Hogg grew up in New Zealand, got his LLB there, then got his LLM at Harvard and a PhD at Monash before coming to Canada for an academic career. Is that the route you're suggesting to OP?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheGeneral said:

Last I checked one of the top Constitutional guys in Canada, Peter Hogg was a lawyer from New Zealand.  How many people here heard of him?

I see you haven’t checked since February. Peter Hogg passed away.

Hogg also didn’t go abroad for his education, except for his LLM at Harvard. He was born in New Zealand and educated in New Zealand, the US, and Australia, then came to Canada as a professor. It’s an entirely different career path from the one being advocated here. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, whereverjustice said:

Peter Hogg grew up in New Zealand, got his LLB there, then got his LLM at Harvard and a PhD at Monash before coming to Canada for an academic career. Is that the route you're suggesting to OP?

All I am saying is there are lots of lawyers in Canada who go their training elsewhere.  The world is truly global, and Canada is not the be all and end all for legal education.  If the OP wants to take the Hogg route, I see no problem with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TheGeneral said:

All I am saying is there are lots of lawyers in Canada who go their training elsewhere.  The world is truly global, and Canada is not the be all and end all for legal education.  If the OP wants to take the Hogg route, I see no problem with it.

No offence to OP, but I have a feeling that Mr. Hogg could have done a bit better than a 2.75 undergrad GPA. What considering the Harvard LLM and Monash SJD. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

No offence to OP, but I have a feeling that Mr. Hogg could have done a bit better than a 2.75 undergrad GPA. What considering the Harvard LLM and Monash SJD. 

Whose to say the OP won't excel in law school abroad?  There have been several Canadians now who have gone abroad now and become lawyers in Canada.  Just a basic google search will reveal plenty of lawyers who got their legal educations abroad.  

Edited by TheGeneral
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TheGeneral said:

Whose to say the OP won't excel in law school abroad?  There have been several Canadians now who have gone abroad now and become lawyers in Canada.  Just a basic google search will reveal plenty of lawyers who got their legal educations abroad.  

They might! They also might cure cancer, win a Pulitzer Prize, and colonize Mars! We’ll have to wait and see! 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

They might! They also might cure cancer, win a Pulitzer Prize, and colonize Mars! We’ll have to wait and see! 

Why wait and see BlockedQuebecois?  Why do you not aspire to do those things? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

They might! They also might cure cancer, win a Pulitzer Prize, and colonize Mars! We’ll have to wait and see! 

I sure hope they colonize Mars. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, MBows94 said:

Just curious as to what my chances would be with this poor of a GPA? I have 2 years of international work experience and a fair bit of volunteer experience if that helps my cause. Obviously my goal on the LSAT would have to be a minimum 160 but I'm open to basically anywhere in Canada. 

following b/c i have similar stats 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

No offence to OP, but I have a feeling that Mr. Hogg could have done a bit better than a 2.75 undergrad GPA. 

How is that not offensive 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chances don’t seem great to me unless your CV is really impressive. I don’t think a couple of years of international work experience will make you standout unless the experience is rich and relevant. Maybe with a great LSAT you might have a shot at a school like Windsor? 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Trew said:

How is that not offensive 

I dunno, if I said I bet Peter Hogg was smarter than you, would you be offended? 

For the record, if anyone wants to insult me, I am more than happy to be called “dumber than Peter Hogg”. I worked with the man once; he was far smarter than me. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, TheGeneral said:
Quote

There are a plenty of people who have gone abroad to Australia, the UK, and the US with low GPA's then done well on return to Canada and have been successful in articling and setting up a practice.  In Canada, maybe law schools are a bit more selective and competitive. 

Actually, it is pretty clear that Canadian law schools are exponentially more selective and competitive. 

Quote

You can do an accelerated law degree in 2 years abroad, do the NCAs in a year, and article or LPP for a year after that.

This is exactly what foreign law schools advertise to Canadians who wish to look for alternative ways of obtaining a law degree. With a little research, however, you will see that for the majority of Canadians who went abroad, this is not how it all panned out for them. What I mean is that, while some of these Canadians who studied abroad did legitimize their degrees and land jobs as lawyers here, they did not have an easy time doing so. For most of them, it took much longer than one year to complete the NCA exams. Then, those students had to face repeated rejection from various law firms that did not want to hire them for articling positions on the basis that they obtained their degrees abroad. 

Just look for some Canadians who studied law abroad on Linkedin. You'll see that many of them are working as lawyers, sure. But, you cannot deny that for the majority of them, there is a large gap between when they graduated their programs, and when they landed their first jobs as lawyers (I found that it was common to see 5-6 year gaps at the minimum). 

Another thing to consider that I've noticed while researching this topic: Most of the foreign-trained Canadian lawyers who get to practice as lawyers today were not only top of their class, but also published articles during their legal education, as well as worked and/or volunteered extensively for firms beyond the typical summer work requirement. These people, despite their impressive achievements and experience, still had a difficult time landing articling positions and getting hired as lawyers. It took them far longer than what foreign law schools promise to Canadians.  Pair that with a 100k+ debt and you really see that this is a risky path to take.

Quote

 GPA is not as much of an issue for foreign schools as is the ability to pay.

Which is what really differentiates foreign versus Canadian law schools. Canadian law schools are, as all of the advisors say, looking for the absolute best students that they can find who hold the best promise and potential for succeeding in law school and beyond. Foreign schools, in comparison, are looking for students who are willing to be price gouged. If their focus was to find and train quality students, they would not have their bars set as low as they are. 

Quote

  Also, Canada's legal market is really small compared to the USA and UK for example, so you do not lose much by going abroad. 

Read what I wrote above and do some research. You will see that there is much to lose if students aren't willing to work hard for years beyond the 3-4 years that foreign law schools promise (and that's IF their hard work pays off, and IF they have the stamina and will to keep going).

Now, let me be clear with something here. I am not a law student. But, I intend to submit applications this fall. So, while I cannot claim to be an expert on any of this, I have certainly done my research, both inside and outside of this forum, and I have to say that the foreign route is not as promising or as easy as you're making it out to be. Can I lie and say that I haven't been tempted to consider the foreign route if Canadian schools reject me? Of course the thought has crossed my mind. But, in having read extensively on the reality of studying law abroad and later returning to 1) challenge the NCA exams, 2) validate my degree, 3) obtain an articling position, and 4) convince employers that I am just as worthy of a candidate as are the Canadian ones in the overly-saturated market of Canadian grads (who were hand-selected as possessing the most potential to succeed, unlike foreign-trained Canadians), I have understood that this path is not an attractive option when you look beyond the face value and emotional appeals of the advertising that comes from these foreign schools. 

So please, for the sake of those who have not done their research yet, and for the sake of those who are at risk of being lured in by the promises these foreign schools are making, stop glamorizing the foreign route. If you must suggest going abroad to people who are looking for an alternative way to become a lawyer, then at least do your part to inform them on the cons and challenges of this route. This is part what good lawyers are supposed to do, yes? Inform people on the best course of action available and not lead them astray.

 

 

Edited by RelaxingTimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I messed up the quote function in my post above. Hopefully it is clear that the italics are my responses to the bolded writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...