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Turtles

Denied by Scotia, No Idea Why

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I'm at a loss for words here.

I just found out I was denied for a PSLOC from Scotiabank. Entering JD/MBA at Osgoode, $30k in government student loan debt, no other balance or debt and no mortgage / car loan, $25k scholarship, 7 years of credit history, a variety of different accounts with zero late payments, no derogatory activity or bankruptcies or collections, only two credit inquiries over the past year, a credit score above 800, and existing pre-law income above $65k. I checked both my Equifax and Transunion reports to verify there are no errors or oversights. Scotiabank back office only sent a generic rejection email to the advisor with no reason stated and the advisor says there isn't anything I can do except find a co-signer (can't) or try a different institution. The advisor has replied to the back office generic email to ask for more information but isn't hopeful that he'll even get a reply. 

Any idea what happened? Any recourse in appealing this with Scotia somehow? I feel like it's an error or there's some small issue that can be easily overcome (I'd happily lower credit card limits or close unused accounts if it would help, but per the advisor they would have approved me for some amount if existing credit limits was the issue) but the rejection seems completely set in stone and they will not say why.

If it's time to try my luck at another bank, where's the next best offer?

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12 minutes ago, Turtles said:

I'm at a loss for words here.

I just found out I was denied for a PSLOC from Scotiabank. Entering JD/MBA at Osgoode, $30k in government student loan debt, no other balance or debt and no mortgage / car loan, $25k scholarship, 7 years of credit history, a variety of different accounts with zero late payments, no derogatory activity or bankruptcies or collections, only two credit inquiries over the past year, a credit score above 800, and existing pre-law income above $65k. I checked both my Equifax and Transunion reports to verify there are no errors or oversights. Scotiabank back office only sent a generic rejection email to the advisor with no reason stated and the advisor says there isn't anything I can do except find a co-signer (can't) or try a different institution. The advisor has replied to the back office generic email to ask for more information but isn't hopeful that he'll even get a reply. 

Any idea what happened? Any recourse in appealing this with Scotia somehow? I feel like it's an error or there's some small issue that can be easily overcome (I'd happily lower credit card limits or close unused accounts if it would help, but per the advisor they would have approved me for some amount if existing credit limits was the issue) but the rejection seems completely set in stone and they will not say why.

If it's time to try my luck at another bank, where's the next best offer?

You're in luck because there's a better offer out there. Take a look at CIBC next. Their advertised rates aren't great but they can generally match the other banks if you ask, which means you should still be able to get a loan at prime. The biggest benefit with them is that they offer the option to convert your PS LoC to a revolving professional LoC after articling instead of a straight amortized loan. Which means you can continue to use it for the rest of your life, with the same rate and limit, and you can pay it down on your own schedule. I've talked to all of the banks and CIBC is the only one offering this.

If you need a contact, try this guy. He's very responsive, knows his stuff, and seems to work with students from every school:

Simon Belz - [email protected]

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The main reason people get rejected is because of collections or late payments. Even people with barely any credit history tend to get approved if there is nothing negative in their report. The only thing that would make sense if everything you said is accurate is that the advisor made a mistake in the application or if they are tightening up credit because of COVID-19. However, if the later was true there would probably be plenty of people on this website getting rejected.

Did you use one of the advisor's from this list? They are the best people to go to if you want someone who knows what they are doing. They have assigned advisors for various professional programs for each school.

https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/personal_banking/Scotiabank_SPSP_representative_English.pdf

There have been stories on Lawstudents.ca in the past of students going to an advisor who normally doesn't deal with professional student line of credits and having them mess up their application causing them to get rejected.

If you can't get Scotia to work for you for some reason, with your credit history you should have no problem getting approved from another bank.

 

Edited by Toad
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Just now, Toad said:

The main reason people get rejected is because of collections or late payments. Even people with barely any credit history tend to get approved if there is nothing negative in their report. The only thing that would make sense if everything you said is accurate is that the advisor made a mistake in the application or if they are tightening up credit because of COVID-19. However, if the later was true there would probably be plenty of people on this website getting rejected.

Did you use one of the advisor's from this list? They are the best people to go to if you want someone who knows what they are doing. They have assigned advisors for various professional programs from each school.

https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/personal_banking/Scotiabank_SPSP_representative_English.pdf

There have been stories on Lawstudents.ca in the past of students going to an advisor who normally doesn't deal with professional student line of credits and having them mess up their application.

If you can't get Scotia to work for you for some reason, with your credit history you should have no problem getting approved from another bank.

 

That was my understanding going into this too -- without derogatory information on either credit file, no late payments or collections or bankruptcies or consumer proposals, with significant credit file length and activity and without debt (besides $30k undergrad gov student loans), I assumed I wouldn't have a problem getting approved. No mortgages, no car loans, no extraordinary obligations. The only potential issue I worried about was whether I had too much unused credit, $20k credit card limits I don't use, but Scotiabank advised it wouldn't be a problem and if it was they'd then ask me to lower limits or work around it by approving me for a lower limit than the $160k (JD/MBA limit). They also said government loans under $50k don't impact approval. The fact that they've denied me entirely is what makes me think it was either an error or an administrative issue, whether a misunderstanding or a missing document or missing field or questionable signature or something, I have no clue. But their notification to the advisor doesn't state why and according to him, there's not really any appeal or opportunity to provide more information, short of finding a cosigner.   

The advisor was somebody not on that list but who has been specifically well-recommended by multiple others on this forum. 

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Relax. The same thing happened to me my first time applying, I was devastated on the subway ride home, and then i contacted another rep provided by the school, who approved me. Turns out, the first rep had no idea what they were doing. 

Edit: also deny any insurance coverage they offer on your debt once approved

Edited by Trew
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5 minutes ago, Trew said:

Relax. The same thing happened to me my first time applying, I was devastated on the subway ride home, and then i contacted another rep provided by the school, who approved me. Turns out, the first rep had no idea what they were doing. 

Edit: also deny any insurance coverage they offer on your debt once approved

Thanks, that's what I needed to hear tbh. 

What did you say to the second rep, "hey I applied and was refused but don't know why, can you run me again?" Was it a second credit hit? My fear is that if I'm not strategic, I'll get dinged by multiple hits shopping around and then will justifiably start getting rejected when it looks like I'm a black sheep. Eek. 

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39 minutes ago, Turtles said:

Thanks, that's what I needed to hear tbh. 

What did you say to the second rep, "hey I applied and was refused but don't know why, can you run me again?" Was it a second credit hit? My fear is that if I'm not strategic, I'll get dinged by multiple hits shopping around and then will justifiably start getting rejected when it looks like I'm a black sheep. Eek. 

I can't recall exactly how I explained it, but I definitely said that I went in before and wasn't approved which didn't make sense. I also had a good credit score, low debt, etc. The second rep was very familiar with the process, and even raised my initial limit from 100K to 125K, although they did upsell me on the insurance coverage which I day pay for a few months until I cancelled it. 

Edited by Trew
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1 hour ago, Toad said:

The main reason people get rejected is because of collections or late payments. Even people with barely any credit history tend to get approved if there is nothing negative in their report. The only thing that would make sense if everything you said is accurate is that the advisor made a mistake in the application or if they are tightening up credit because of COVID-19. However, if the later was true there would probably be plenty of people on this website getting rejected.

Did you use one of the advisor's from this list? They are the best people to go to if you want someone who knows what they are doing. They have assigned advisors for various professional programs for each school.

https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/personal_banking/Scotiabank_SPSP_representative_English.pdf

There have been stories on Lawstudents.ca in the past of students going to an advisor who normally doesn't deal with professional student line of credits and having them mess up their application causing them to get rejected.

If you can't get Scotia to work for you for some reason, with your credit history you should have no problem getting approved from another bank.

 

I've reached out to some representatives on that list and turns out, it is outdated. This is the new list: https://www.scotiabank.com/content/dam/scotiabank/canada/en/documents/Scotiabank_SPSP_representative_English.pdf 

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Ah, LoC woes.  Fun fact: I was rejected for Scotiabank's Professional LoC in second year and thought my life was over.  I cried my eyes out, then stumbled into a bar at 3 in the afternoon and knocked back tequila shots, several of which were free because the bartenders took such pity on me when they asked me why I was getting smashed at 3 in the afternoon and I poured out my sad tale.  Fun times.

 

Not sure what school you go to OP, but hopefully I can also help calm your anxiety a little.  I went to U of T Law, and our Scotiabank representative was (and still is, according to the above updated list) Lynne Owen.  After I sobered up, my school's financial aid advisor suggested I contact her, and she met with me in person to go over every single part of my Equifax printout.  She turned cartwheels to find a way to get me the LoC despite my less-than-stellar credit.  She can't work miracles if your credit history is really shaky, but it doesn't sound like yours is at all.

 

Even if U of T isn't your school and Lynne isn't your rep, it's important to reach out to your rep for a personal consultation.  My experience was that they really do want to find a way to get you that LoC, and it sounds like your rejection is something they can work with and turn it around.  Honestly, I'm scratching my head as to why you were rejected in the first place, and I'm pretty confident your school's rep will be able to fix it.

 

Head up, it will be okay! :)

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10 minutes ago, DavisFromCornerGas said:

 

Ah, LoC woes.  Fun fact: I was rejected for Scotiabank's Professional LoC in second year and thought my life was over.  I cried my eyes out, then stumbled into a bar at 3 in the afternoon and knocked back tequila shots, several of which were free because the bartenders took such pity on me when they asked me why I was getting smashed at 3 in the afternoon and I poured out my sad tale.  Fun times.

 

Not sure what school you go to OP, but hopefully I can also help calm your anxiety a little.  I went to U of T Law, and our Scotiabank representative was (and still is, according to the above updated list) Lynne Owen.  After I sobered up, my school's financial aid advisor suggested I contact her, and she met with me in person to go over every single part of my Equifax printout.  She turned cartwheels to find a way to get me the LoC despite my less-than-stellar credit.  She can't work miracles if your credit history is really shaky, but it doesn't sound like yours is at all.

 

So you can apply for a LOC in 2L? If so is the limit lower or the same?  I don’t need it in 1L and might not need it after, but want to make sure the door is open in 2L. 

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1 hour ago, penguinh said:

I've reached out to some representatives on that list and turns out, it is outdated. This is the new list: https://www.scotiabank.com/content/dam/scotiabank/canada/en/documents/Scotiabank_SPSP_representative_English.pdf 

I reached out to the rep listed for my school (Osgoode) back in April when I was first researching LOCs and never received a reply, hence why I went with someone recommended on the Osgoode forum instead. Maybe it's time to find another rep from the list.

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18 minutes ago, DavisFromCornerGas said:

Ah, LoC woes.  Fun fact: I was rejected for Scotiabank's Professional LoC in second year and thought my life was over.  I cried my eyes out, then stumbled into a bar at 3 in the afternoon and knocked back tequila shots, several of which were free because the bartenders took such pity on me when they asked me why I was getting smashed at 3 in the afternoon and I poured out my sad tale.  Fun times.

 

Not sure what school you go to OP, but hopefully I can also help calm your anxiety a little.  I went to U of T Law, and our Scotiabank representative was (and still is, according to the above updated list) Lynne Owen.  After I sobered up, my school's financial aid advisor suggested I contact her, and she met with me in person to go over every single part of my Equifax printout.  She turned cartwheels to find a way to get me the LoC despite my less-than-stellar credit.  She can't work miracles if your credit history is really shaky, but it doesn't sound like yours is at all.

 

Even if U of T isn't your school and Lynne isn't your rep, it's important to reach out to your rep for a personal consultation.  My experience was that they really do want to find a way to get you that LoC, and it sounds like your rejection is something they can work with and turn it around.  Honestly, I'm scratching my head as to why you were rejected in the first place, and I'm pretty confident your school's rep will be able to fix it.

 

Head up, it will be okay! :)

Thank you, that was a really hopeful story. I'll be attending Osgoode but I'll see about reaching out to Lynne nonetheless. It sounds like she really cared and made an effort, compared to my current advisor who largely said "I don't know what happened and nothing we can do, good luck".

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3 minutes ago, Turtles said:

I reached out to the rep listed for my school (Osgoode) back in April when I was first researching LOCs and never received a reply, hence why I went with someone recommended on the Osgoode forum instead. Maybe it's time to find another rep from the list.

In that case, a couple of options I'd like to pose:

 

If you decide to reach out to another advisor, I highly recommend Lynne Owens.

 

It may very well be the case they have a rule that you can't speak to any rep other than your school's.  I hope not, but they might, in which case if the financial aid advisor for your school is still communicative during COVID, I would suggest you tell them about your situation and ask that they reach out to your school's rep for you.  I spoke with Lynne after our school's financial aid advisor reached out to her and told her about my situation.  He definitely laid the groundwork and made the process more seamless.  See if that's something Osgoode's financial aid advisor will do with your school's rep.

 

When all else fails, contact TD.  They have the same LoC, and in my opinion they're more competent than Scotiabank.

 

Good luck!

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1 minute ago, Turtles said:

Thank you, that was a really hopeful story. I'll be attending Osgoode but I'll see about reaching out to Lynne nonetheless. It sounds like she really cared and made an effort, compared to my current advisor who largely said "I don't know what happened and nothing we can do, good luck".

My fingers are crossed for you!  Update us as to how it goes (if you feel comfortable, of course)!

Edited by DavisFromCornerGas
Grammatical error
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13 minutes ago, jatthopefullawyer said:

So you can apply for a LOC in 2L? If so is the limit lower or the same?  I don’t need it in 1L and might not need it after, but want to make sure the door is open in 2L. 

Yes you can. My advisor told me you can apply for it during law school, but the overall limit will be lower if you do it in 2L. They have a certain amount allotted for each year (at least, I know TD and Scotiabank does) so if you apply in 2L you wouldn’t get the 1L portion. 

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On a related note. My father was approved for a mortgage with Scotia, ready to close last week. However, 2 days before closing, they withdrew approval, and wouldn't give us any recourse. There was no change to his income, credit or anything like that. Given the circumstances changing their mind 2 days before closing is completely egregious. With your post now, and everything in perspective, it tells me that Scotia is just tightening down their lending practices.

 

I was gonna go with Scotia for my PSLOC as well, but after the trouble they caused my father, I don't think I can trust Scotia to lend me money anymore. RBC was my second choice when I was doing my research. So, I think I will go with them instead. 

 

P.S. My dad isn't buying a house wantonly in the pandemic, the agreement of purchase was settled a week before the pandemic. 

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Go to TD. They approved me last week for 125k. The rep told me they love law and medicine students. Hope everything works out Turtles! 

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4 hours ago, HopefulLawyer97 said:

 

Go to TD. They approved me last week for 125k. The rep told me they love law and medicine students. Hope everything works out Turtles! 

 

Could you provide the info for your rep? I can’t find any lists for TD like scotia has. 

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53 minutes ago, jatthopefullawyer said:

Could you provide the info for your rep? I can’t find any lists for TD like scotia has. 

DM me! 

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18 hours ago, jatthopefullawyer said:

So you can apply for a LOC in 2L? If so is the limit lower or the same?  I don’t need it in 1L and might not need it after, but want to make sure the door is open in 2L. 

With Scotia, you can even apply at the end of 3L and get the max limit. I applied this past April just before graduating, and was approved for a $135k limit that I can continue to draw from for the next few years.

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