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samIams

Law Schools going ONLINE 2020/2021

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24 minutes ago, Turtles said:

Canada's at 5000+ deaths and many parts of the country have been "locked down" (to varying degrees) for two months now. We've all seen this coming, whether we wished to admit it or not.

We've gone through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and now it's time for acceptance. 

That is true, I guess. Now I'm curious about how this is all going to go down in the US. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dak said:

@iamcold

see the link here: https://www.uvic.ca/covid-19/home/updates/fall-announcement-may2020.php

UVic is going to be primarily online for the fall... no clue what that means, or how much will be online. This seems to be school-wide, but there will be more information at the end of the month.

UBC seems to be the same being "primarily" online for the fall: https://broadcastemail.ubc.ca/2020/05/11/covid-19-ubcs-approach-for-the-fall-term/

 

Update: got this email half an hour ago, so I guess there is truth to the rumour after all! No idea what a "hybrid" system might look like. Maybe much smaller classes if they DO go through with some form of physical classes?

Today, the University of Victoria announced that UVic will offer programming mostly online for the fall term. ... Although, guidance from the premier and provincial health officer indicates that physical distancing measures will remain in place and that gatherings with over fifty people will not be permitted for the foreseeable future, we are looking at hybrid ways of offering the law curriculum to our law students.

Edited by iamcold
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21 minutes ago, iamcold said:

I guess there is truth to the rumour after all!

Thanks for confirming.

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30 minutes ago, samIams said:

Thanks for confirming.

I'm still not ruling out the potential for some degree in-person programming to happen given that the email was kinda vague and UVic's 1L cohort and class sizes seem small (uvic.ca/law/admissions/jdadmissionfaqs/index.php). 

(1L cohort = around 110 students; first two weeks' Legal Process Program = split into groups of 25 or less; rest of the year = 25-60 students)

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19 hours ago, Astro said:

This trend is interesting. At this point, I think it's all but certain that all the other schools will follow suit. People here seem to be taking this news remarkably, almost unusually, well. Kudos.

I mean, I'm really not but I also don't want to embarrass myself on a public platform. 🙂

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19 hours ago, iamcold said:

I'm still not ruling out the potential for some degree in-person programming to happen given that the email was kinda vague and UVic's 1L cohort and class sizes seem small (uvic.ca/law/admissions/jdadmissionfaqs/index.php). 

(1L cohort = around 110 students; first two weeks' Legal Process Program = split into groups of 25 or less; rest of the year = 25-60 students)

Except for the fact that the law building only really has one lecture hall that can sufficiently accommodate social distancing for a group of 25-50 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, iamcold said:

I'm still not ruling out the potential for some degree in-person programming to happen given that the email was kinda vague and UVic's 1L cohort and class sizes seem small (uvic.ca/law/admissions/jdadmissionfaqs/index.php). 

(1L cohort = around 110 students; first two weeks' Legal Process Program = split into groups of 25 or less; rest of the year = 25-60 students)

@iamcold the main issue is physical space for social distancing. For 25 people to be in a room while social distancing, you would need a 900 square foot room minimum ... and even that is a bit of a stretch

Also, I should add, a 900 sq ft room only works if people are literally in the wall... so yes, a very large stretch

(didn't see the reply above, we were typing at the same time I guess)

Edited by dak

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, nrrrvous said:

Except for the fact that the law building only really has one lecture hall that can sufficiently accommodate social distancing for a group of 25-50 

 

2 hours ago, dak said:

@iamcold the main issue is physical space for social distancing. For 25 people to be in a room while social distancing, you would need a 900 square foot room minimum ... and even that is a bit of a stretch

Also, I should add, a 900 sq ft room only works if people are literally in the wall... so yes, a very large stretch

(didn't see the reply above, we were typing at the same time I guess)

Fair! I haven't actually been to UVic's campus, so I have no idea how big anything is. I was under the impression that other buildings' lecture halls might be used if most of the other faculties are going online. (I'm used to a "run 15 minutes across campus to this random not-your-faculty building we fit your class in" way of running things.)

Edited by iamcold

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, iamcold said:

 

Fair! I haven't actually been to UVic's campus, so I have no idea how big anything is. I was under the impression that other buildings' lecture halls might be used if most of the other faculties are going online. (My undergrad had kind of a "run 15 across campus to this random building we fit your class in" way of running things.)

@iamcold 

I went to a smaller Ontario uni - slightly bigger than UVic - and the rooms couldn't comfortably host 25 people with social distancing in place (except for some bigger lecture halls).

After looking at pictures of UVic classrooms online, it's clear that even the lecture halls aren't massive. There's also the question of what faculties have priority to space (as much as I would like to think law students are extremely important, other faculties might not appreciate them encroaching on their valuable real estate during COVID).

I think the physical sciences and engineering will have priority since labs are integral to their degrees. The faculty of law is likely one of the lowest priorities in terms of who needs physical space to complete classwork (you can simulate much of what our classes will be online, but you can't have kids doing dissections, titrations, etc. at home).

I think that schools need to give the option to go entirely online until they can comfortably have more than 50%(ish) of classes in-person. The thought of moving to a new city, paying rent, and adjusting to life in a new place while only attending a few classes a week - if that - is terribly unappealing (to put it lightly)

Edited by dak
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1 hour ago, dak said:

@iamcold 

I went to a smaller Ontario uni - slightly bigger than UVic - and the rooms couldn't comfortably host 25 people with social distancing in place (except for some bigger lecture halls).

After looking at pictures of UVic classrooms online, it's clear that even the lecture halls aren't massive. There's also the question of what faculties have priority to space (as much as I would like to think law students are extremely important, other faculties might not appreciate them encroaching on their valuable real estate during COVID).

I think the physical sciences and engineering will have priority since labs are integral to their degrees. The faculty of law is likely one of the lowest priorities in terms of who needs physical space to complete classwork (you can simulate much of what our classes will be online, but you can't have kids doing dissections, titrations, etc. at home).

I think that schools need to give the option to go entirely online until they can comfortably have more than 50%(ish) of classes in-person. The thought of moving to a new city, paying rent, and adjusting to life in a new place while only attending a few classes a week - if that - is terribly unappealing (to put it lightly)

The one pro - think of all the rent and groceries we'll save if we went online.... 

 

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@604wannabelawyer 

4 hours ago, 604wannabelawyer said:

The one pro - think of all the rent and groceries we'll save if we went online.... 

 

that's only if you don't have to move to a new city for a handful of in-person mandatory classes, in which case: think of moving and paying rent to live in a place where you attend a few hours of classes a week - or don't do that, up to you!

seriously hoping they'll offer a full online option rather than a partial online, partial in-person system

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5 hours ago, dak said:

@604wannabelawyer 

that's only if you don't have to move to a new city for a handful of in-person mandatory classes, in which case: think of moving and paying rent to live in a place where you attend a few hours of classes a week - or don't do that, up to you!

seriously hoping they'll offer a full online option rather than a partial online, partial in-person system

Thats how i feel. Online isn't ideal but having to move across the country for two hours a week of in-person classes would be worse for me. I hope they have an in person option for local students and a fully online option for students who would rather save the rent money and live at home for a semester.

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Posted (edited)

@unemployableBA 

While incoming students might be disappointed by an online 1L, they'd be both disappointed AND pissed off with the hybrid plan. A full online option makes more sense: students don't have to go through the pains of moving just to have a half-hearted in-person 1L - those who live in the area can go to classes that abide by the recommended social distancing guidelines.

I'd rather wait to do in-person classes "properly" instead of having an outbreak because schools jumped the gun.

Also, a meet and greet would be ridiculous with everyone being 2 metres apart - how am I supposed to become a lawyer without practicing my handshake?!?!?!!?!?!?!

 

 

Edited by dak
because I can't spell :)
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Posted (edited)

Western just announced that it's likely to be a mixed model for fall where some classes are in person and others are online. They want to finalize their decision by June 1. Law school hasn't said anything but their hands are probably tied to what central admin decides anyway

Edited by lewcifer
rephrased for clarity
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21 minutes ago, lewcifer said:

Western just announced that it's likely to be a mixed model for fall where some classes are in person and others are online. They want to finalize their decision by June 1. Law school hasn't said anything but their hands are probably tied to what central admin decides anyway

The announcement for anyone who wants to read it: https://www.uwo.ca/coronavirus/presidents-updates/index.html

Personally, I'd like to have the ability to do some in-person activities (fingers crossed that clinics will run in some capacity), so this is promising news for me.

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10 hours ago, unemployableBA said:

Thats how i feel. Online isn't ideal but having to move across the country for two hours a week of in-person classes would be worse for me. I hope they have an in person option for local students and a fully online option for students who would rather save the rent money and live at home for a semester.

 

57 minutes ago, dak said:

@unemployableBA 

While incoming students might be disappointed by an online 1L, they'd be both disappointed AND pissed off with the hybrid plan. A full online option makes more sense: students don't have to go through the pains of moving just to have a half-hearted in-person 1L - those who live in the area can go to classes that abide by the recommended social distancing guidelines.

That's pretty much what uOttawa is doing. They said Fall 2020 will be 100% online but if provincial guidelines allow for in-person classes, they will try to have some but that nobody will be forced to attend in-person and the courses are going to be available online regardless so students don't have to move for the Fall semester if they choose not to do so.

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2 hours ago, penguinh said:

 

That's pretty much what uOttawa is doing. They said Fall 2020 will be 100% online but if provincial guidelines allow for in-person classes, they will try to have some but that nobody will be forced to attend in-person and the courses are going to be available online regardless so students don't have to move for the Fall semester if they choose not to do so.

That's a great plan - shocked more haven't gone that way.

Also, I'd be surprised if any university insists on holding in-person classes, especially for students livign with at-risk individuals (or simply if social distancing isn't completely over...)

Nobody should have to choose between their own safety (or the safety of their families) and their education 

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7 hours ago, Cheech said:

The announcement for anyone who wants to read it: https://www.uwo.ca/coronavirus/presidents-updates/index.html

Personally, I'd like to have the ability to do some in-person activities (fingers crossed that clinics will run in some capacity), so this is promising news for me.

So, I can comment on what Dal is doing with respect to clinics so far this Summer. Dal has a clinic program where students spend a semester working for Dalhousie Legal Aid Service (DLAS) on virtually a full-time basis for a large amount of credit. I believe students usually only take a maximum of one course alongside the clinic. Some students choose to take the clinic course over the Summer. DLAS is still operating over the Summer, but is almost entirely online. 

The clinic will definitely be operating in the Fall, but we don't know what that's going to look like yet (online, in-person, hybrid, etc.). At the very least, there is one law school that will have clinic(s)operating in the Fall! I can imagine other clinics at other law schools will be able to figure something out, if they haven't already (perhaps someone else can comment on that). The big question to be answered for Dal will be what level of 1L/2L involvement we can expect.

----

I'd be somewhat surprised if we see all law schools in Canada go online, even partially. COVID-19 has had a large effect in some provinces and a very minimal effect in others. Barring inter-provincial transportation restrictions I'd be surprised if, say, UNB went completely online seeing as New Brunswick hasn't had a confirmed case in over a week. Obviously there will be some concerns about students bringing the virus with them to NB, but I can imagine that could be dealt with by mandatory quarantine periods, or something else. 

 

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UManitoba announced they’re going online in the Fall, which the law school is very, very, very likely mandated to follow. Interesting given Manitoba’s relatively few cases & new cases, but they are taking all precautions I suppose. 

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14 minutes ago, icantpoonomore said:

UManitoba announced they’re going online in the Fall, which the law school is very, very, very likely mandated to follow. Interesting given Manitoba’s relatively few cases & new cases, but they are taking all precautions I suppose. 

That's not entirely accurate....they said a plan has been approved for all classes to be remote. They didn't say yet the plan will for sure be implemented. It might seem like semantics, but nothing has been decided yet.

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