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aishxxxx

Applying to law school's this year - advice! [3.27, 3.39]

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Hi, so I'm planning to apply to law schools in Ontario for 2021 (aiming for Queens or Western). I just got my final marks and my cGPA is currently at 3.27 while my L2 is at 3.39. It was lower than I expected. I attest this to my third year where I got two B's that dragged my L2 down. My cGPA is that low because of two very impacting issues I endured first and second year. However, I did fairly well my fourth year with mostly all A's and few B+'s. 

Regardless, my GPA is not where I want it to be so I registered for 2 summer school courses to get my L2 up a bit. But I was wondering if it would be worth it to go back to school next year and take maybe 2-3 full year courses to try and raise my GPA up. Originally, I was thinking of retaking a 9 credit course I took my year year that I got a C on to raise my average (I can 100% do MUCH better, I missed almost two months of school first year and the accommodation was terrible which is why my mark is so low). But I read somewhere here that retaking courses isn't a good idea as many schools use both marks in calculating your GPA. I'm still not sure if this is entirely true, especially for Queens and Western. Anyways, after reading that, I am pretty much confused on what my next step should be. I'm not sure if I should retake courses from my first year or if I should take new courses or if it is even worth going back at all. If anyone has any advice, please feel free to share. Thanks!

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Posted (edited)

This is entirely dependent upon your LSAT score. Your "next step" is getting a sense of what that would be.

Queens and Western are looking unlikely for you with that cGPA and L2, but not entirely out of the question.

Edited by CleanHands

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20 hours ago, CleanHands said:

This is entirely dependent upon your LSAT score. Your "next step" is getting a sense of what that would be.

Queens and Western are looking unlikely for you with that cGPA and L2, but not entirely out of the question.

Yeah, I'm actually starting a group prep this Sunday. I've done some prep already and it has been fairly well so I'm hoping for the best. I think I may be able to raise my L2 to at least a 3.50 or .55 as long as they factor in my upcoming summer school courses. 

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Queens takes your best two not your last 2. I have similar stats (CGPA 3.36 L2 3.4) and got into oz, queens, and western. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I have other extracurriculars and professional experience + masters which certainly helps. But as the above poster mentioned, it will come down to your lsat score. I scored a 163, so anything above 160 is what you should aim for.

 

Good luck. 

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On 5/6/2020 at 4:28 PM, Bboy12 said:

Queens takes your best two not your last 2. I have similar stats (CGPA 3.36 L2 3.4) and got into oz, queens, and western. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I have other extracurriculars and professional experience + masters which certainly helps. But as the above poster mentioned, it will come down to your lsat score. I scored a 163, so anything above 160 is what you should aim for.

 

Good luck. 

Very late reply haha but I also have ensured that I did have extracurricular activities for this very reason. Off the top of my head, I’ve been a research assistant to a graduate school professor and for a union. I’ve worked with Habitat for Humanity, Amnesty, etc. I’ve had a few other jobs in the past 4 years (Scotiabank, Executive Assistant, stc) so I’m hoping this will help. I’m taking my LSAT November 14 so I’m going to put majority of my energy into that. I was even thinking it might be beneficial to get an application advisor, just trying to find the best service that isn’t going to run me completely dry. 

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10 minutes ago, aishxxxx said:

Very late reply haha but I also have ensured that I did have extracurricular activities for this very reason. Off the top of my head, I’ve been a research assistant to a graduate school professor and for a union. I’ve worked with Habitat for Humanity, Amnesty, etc. I’ve had a few other jobs in the past 4 years (Scotiabank, Executive Assistant, stc) so I’m hoping this will help. I’m taking my LSAT November 14 so I’m going to put majority of my energy into that. I was even thinking it might be beneficial to get an application advisor, just trying to find the best service that isn’t going to run me completely dry. 

Do not get an application advisor if you dont have to. You should be able to get in with those extra's a 160+ lsat and a great personal statement. If you need someone to help you out with those things including personal statement - you can shoot me a pm! i'd be glad to help 

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You should check whether Queen's or Western will count your summer courses, or further courses taken next year at a reduced courseload. I believe that Queen's only uses consecutive fall-winter terms at a full courseload, so you may not be doing yourself any good with summer courses or a part-time fall-winter session. However, the schools are not often as clear about these criteria as they could be, so I would definitely suggest you get in touch to confirm.

-GM

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Queens does not count summer terms when calculating your L2 or B2.

I emailed them a few months ago to confirm if taking extra courses over summer to boost my GPA would help and they advised that while it may help my cGPA, they will not consider it for B2 or L2 calculation. 

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Posted (edited)

Don't feel like you need to retake a course from first year if you think there is another course you could do better in. Retakes don't alter your OLSAS gpa any differently than a new course as your original mark and retaken mark are both used in the calculation. 

It's difficult to give advice regarding admissions if you don't have an LSAT score, but I can tell you a 3.27 cgpa and a 3.39 L2 is not really competitive at Ontario law schools (without an LSAT of ~170)

As a general applicant, you'd likely need to get your cgpa over 3.3 and your LSAT near or over 160 for a chance at a school like Windsor or Ryerson (you would also need to satisfy what they are looking for in their holistic admission criteria)

Your chances at Queen's/Western seem unlikely unless you can get your calculated L2/B2 to ~3.6 or over and score ~160 or over on your LSAT.

If you're set on law school and your stats remain similar, maybe begin to look at out of province schools.

Good Luck

Edited by theboy

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1 hour ago, theboy said:

Don't feel like you need to retake a course from first year if you think there is another course you could do better in. Retakes don't alter your OLSAS gpa any differently than a new course as your original mark and retaken mark are both used in the calculation. 

It's difficult to give advice regarding admissions if you don't have an LSAT score, but I can tell you a 3.27 cgpa and a 3.39 L2 is not really competitive at Ontario law schools (without an LSAT of ~170)

As a general applicant, you'd likely need to get your cgpa over 3.3 and your LSAT near or over 160 for a chance at a school like Windsor or Ryerson (you would also need to satisfy what they are looking for in their holistic admission criteria)

Your chances at Queen's/Western seem unlikely unless you can get your calculated L2/B2 to ~3.6 or over and score ~160 or over on your LSAT.

If you're set on law school and your stats remain similar, maybe begin to look at out of province schools.

Good Luck

I ended up not taking the summer courses cause my LSAT advisor told me to focus solely on the test. 

Also, I should have mentioned, I plan on apply under the access category. I did some research on Queen’s access category requirement and it fit my profile. I’m not sure if other schools have similar requirements or even offer it but I am planning to apply to Queen’s under access. Hopefully that and my extracurriculars will help. 

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3 hours ago, GrumpyMountie said:

You should check whether Queen's or Western will count your summer courses, or further courses taken next year at a reduced courseload. I believe that Queen's only uses consecutive fall-winter terms at a full courseload, so you may not be doing yourself any good with summer courses or a part-time fall-winter session. However, the schools are not often as clear about these criteria as they could be, so I would definitely suggest you get in touch to confirm.

-GM

Yeah, I think I’m gonna give them a call or email to get some more clarity. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aishxxxx said:

I ended up not taking the summer courses cause my LSAT advisor told me to focus solely on the test. 

Also, I should have mentioned, I plan on apply under the access category. I did some research on Queen’s access category requirement and it fit my profile. I’m not sure if other schools have similar requirements or even offer it but I am planning to apply to Queen’s under access. Hopefully that and my extracurriculars will help. 

Unlikely to be admitted under access with a 3.27 cgpa + 3.39 L2/B2 @ Queen's or Western.

https://law.queensu.ca/programs/jd/class-stats

You can take a look at the average B2 gpa under the access category for the 2022 class @ Queen's. Also, only 8% of the class was accepted under the access category. 

I wouldn't rely on an access claim to bridge the gap between your current marks and the averages. 

Edited by theboy
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6 hours ago, theboy said:

Unlikely to be admitted under access with a 3.27 cgpa + 3.39 L2/B2 @ Queen's or Western.

https://law.queensu.ca/programs/jd/class-stats

You can take a look at the average B2 gpa under the access category for the 2022 class @ Queen's. Also, only 8% of the class was accepted under the access category. 

I wouldn't rely on an access claim to bridge the gap between your current marks and the averages. 

Damn, I didn’t realize how low the percentage would be. 

I’ll try to talk to some schools and see what I’m told. I’m going to focus on the LSAT test for now and hope for the best. Thanks.

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I’ll just say I applied General to Queens, Western, Osgoode, UBC, and UOttawa with a 3.27 CGPA, 3.4 ish B2/L2, and a 166 LSAT and I didn’t get in anywhere. 

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23 hours ago, emilystudent said:

I’ll just say I applied General to Queens, Western, Osgoode, UBC, and UOttawa with a 3.27 CGPA, 3.4 ish B2/L2, and a 166 LSAT and I didn’t get in anywhere. 

Damn, I’m sorry about that. That’s a pretty good LSAT score too. Do you mind sharing what your extra curricular’s were? 

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On 8/4/2020 at 6:11 PM, theboy said:

Unlikely to be admitted under access with a 3.27 cgpa + 3.39 L2/B2 @ Queen's or Western.

https://law.queensu.ca/programs/jd/class-stats

You can take a look at the average B2 gpa under the access category for the 2022 class @ Queen's. Also, only 8% of the class was accepted under the access category. 

I wouldn't rely on an access claim to bridge the gap between your current marks and the averages. 

I apologize for hijacking the thread, but only 3% admitted have regular BAs? Is it that people with Honours are gunners, or that Queen's admits fewer people who aren't in Honours programs?

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8 minutes ago, lh22 said:

I apologize for hijacking the thread, but only 3% admitted have regular BAs? Is it that people with Honours are gunners, or that Queen's admits fewer people who aren't in Honours programs?

I would assume it's more just honours degrees are very common among people considering formal education past a first bachelor's

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Posted (edited)

Queens is one of those 3 years=General 4 years=Honors schools:

https://www.queensu.ca/artsci/think-and-apply/degrees-at-a-glance#:~:text=Degrees at a Glance,-The degrees offered&text=An Honours degree is typically,of the following Honours program.

I'd imagine that's where it comes form. A bunch of other schools have the same convention where 4 years=honors, 3 years=general, while others have both general & honors 4 year degrees, causing confusion. 

Edited by LawCS

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27 minutes ago, lawstudent20202020 said:

I would assume it's more just honours degrees are very common among people considering formal education past a first bachelor's

 

6 minutes ago, LawCS said:

Queens is one of those 3 years=General 4 years=Honors schools:

https://www.queensu.ca/artsci/think-and-apply/degrees-at-a-glance#:~:text=Degrees at a Glance,-The degrees offered&text=An Honours degree is typically,of the following Honours program.

I'd imagine that's where it comes form. A bunch of other schools have the same convention where 4 years=honors, 3 years=general, while others have both general & honors 4 year degrees, causing confusion. 

Makes sense. My uni is 4 years no matter what, so I wasn't really aware others were different. Also, I suppose grades high enough for law school are often high enough for Honours so people participate in the latter because they can. This eases my mind a bit, haha.

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