Jump to content
QMT20

Firm Comparisons/Rankings/Discussion etc.

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, georgecostanzajr said:

What a joke. Firstly, @Rashabon rightly pointed out that your "pre-law" employers aren't relevant because the statement you were replying to said "any firm doing the structured recruit feeds you after a certain hour and pays for your ride home". Secondly, it's not at all uncommon for other employers in other industries to pay for your dinner if you're working late, or your ride home if you work into the night (e.g. those in tech, other professionals - management consultants, IB, etc.).

He literally made my point for me with the meal reimbursement. Also, meals beyond $500 to $1000 are a taxable benefit. Do I really have to spell it out beyond initially saying it. I get you like all of his posts, but don't drag me into this. 

Edit: Reasonable law students; Reasonable articling students; Reasonable articling students on Bay St*

Edited by Trew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Trew said:

He literally made my point for me with the meal reimbursement. Also, meals beyond $500 to $1000 are a taxable benefit. Do I really have to spell it out beyond initially saying it. I get you like all of his posts, but don't drag me into this. 

Again, where does student entitlement come from? 

The point is not "all students deserve things," it's "students on Bay commonly get certain things." If your employer isn't giving you what other employers are giving their students, that's a good data point to have.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, easttowest said:

Again, where does student entitlement come from? 

The point is not "all students deserve things," it's "students on Bay commonly get certain things." If your employer isn't giving you what other employers are giving their students, that's a good data point to have.

I agree and I guess the issue stems from my use of "entitlement". That's a provoking word it seems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Trew said:

I agree and I guess the issue stems from my use of "entitlement". That's a provoking word it seems

Used in its neutral sense it's fine. In the context it appeared as though you were purporting to say that students should not expect meals paid for.

Also, to be clear: I don't expect anyone to pay for my food. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone wants to pay me to do anything. It's just quite nice that they are! 

Edited by easttowest
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, easttowest said:

Used in its neutral sense it's fine. In the context it appeared as though you were purporting to say that students should not expect meals paid for.

Not to the extent that was initially suggested, as in every day. With respect, please read the initial post I was responding to. In that light, I used the terminology I did. The comparison to pre-law school employers was confusing here and I should have used a closer frame of reference.

Edited by Trew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Trew said:

Not to the extent that was initially suggested, as in every day. With respect, please read the initial post I was responding to. In that light, I used the terminology I did. The comparison to pre-law school employers was confusing here and I should have used a closer frame of reference.

Dude you literally said "law student entitlement/privilege." How did you expect people to interpret that phrasing? 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, easttowest said:

Dude you literally said "law student entitlement/privilege." How did you expect people to interpret that phrasing? 

Yeah my bad lol

Edited by Trew
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Trew said:

Not to the extent that was initially suggested, as in every day. With respect, please read the initial post I was responding to. In that light, I used the terminology I did. The comparison to pre-law school employers was confusing here and I should have used a closer frame of reference.

Her initial post said “work really late”. It was pretty clear to everyone what was being referred to but you had to pop off and then make completely incomprehensible posts.

Gg

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm waiting for a ranking list still. Pls fix thx. 

  • Like 5
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, QMT20 said:

While I understand the caution some people have towards wading into their specific opinions on these points, why does it have to be so taboo for anyone to give an opinion (understanding that they are just that, an opinion, which is all that was asked for in the first place)? 

I can speak for myself here. 

1. I am not completely anonymous here, and my employer would not take kindly to me being blunt towards firms. 

2. The bulk of my opinions are formed on the basis of who our external firms are, which I'm pretty sure my company wants kept confidential. And even if they don't care, discretion matters, and I would never want to make my employer look bad. 

3. I'm going to be called in June, I don't have enough touch points to have reliable opinions, and don't want to burn any bridges by posting on a public forum. Last thing I need is a lurker figuring out who I am and sewering a potential position for me because I said something negative. I don't care how unlikely that is, I don't have the privilege of burning bridges at this point in my career. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, whoknows said:

I can speak for myself here. 

1. I am not completely anonymous here, and my employer would not take kindly to me being blunt towards firms. 

I don’t want to comment any further on rankings, but I actually think this is something that should be more widely spoken about on the board. All of the mods likely know who you are based on your email, and many other people could probably figure it out if they tried. Quite a few people know who I am on here. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CoffeeandLaw said:

I don’t want to comment any further on rankings, but I actually think this is something that should be more widely spoken about on the board. All of the mods likely know who you are based on your email, and many other people could probably figure it out if they tried. Quite a few people know who I am on here. 

Yea, there's definitely an unwritten rule that anonymity is atleast partially preserved. I've been pretty open about my unique path through law school, pretty easy to suss out who I am too. 

With that being said, that's also why I don't take part in any particularly controversial debates here, and generally comport myself in much the same way I do professionally. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, whoknows said:

With that being said, that's also why I don't take part in any particularly controversial debates here, and generally comport myself in much the same way I do professionally. 

I wish I could do this but I’m very bad at it. I do always ensure though that I would maintain my position face to face when I post something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, whoknows said:

With that being said, that's also why I don't take part in any particularly controversial debates here, and generally comport myself in much the same way I do professionally. 

This is always the best approach. Though I will admit to taking part in some controversial debates, albeit trying to comport myself professionally while I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lvrgdfinguy said:

I had 5 offers from in-firms and for the life of me could not decide what firm to go with. 4 were sisters and 1 was a firm that could be considered near-sister. The debate on this whole thread has been whether rankings or comparison/discussion would be useful, or whether they'd be accurate. My experience, in hindsight, is that it 10000% would have been useful in comparing corporate firms on a general level, even if it was based on subjectivity. I like to hear what people's perceptions are about all the firms, and as a 2L going through recruit, as many have pointed out in other threads, you just don't know much. Even if people don't have a ranking per se, it'd be interesting to hear what the perceptions and relative characteristics are of firms

Edit: I'd add that I know it's important to take subjective opinions on firms with a grain of salt - but I still think they can be useful, as they can become things to look into/ask around about, etc.

My post was somewhat tongue in cheek. There tends to be a lot of navel gazing around here.

I appreciate the fact that it might take some years to gain perspective. But I would respectfully submit that someone who has multiple offers is going to be ok regardless of which opportunity they choose. If you have 5 offers, chances are pretty high, dare I say certain, that if the choice you made doesn't turn out to be right for you, then you will land softly somewhere that is a better fit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'll bite. I don't really think about firms as a ranked list (like firms 1 through 20 or whatever, which highly depends on practice group), but rather as buckets of firms with slightly different business models. Obviously there are tons of overlap, but at the sake of getting torn apart later by posters and just over-generalizing: 

Toronto Centric Transactional Focused Firms - Toronto focused, handful or fewer satellite offices, event-driven, focuses on higher stakes corporate mandates (from a Board or Buyer or Target) and servicing a smaller number of highly profitable blue chip and active clients that are willing to pay. Fewer number of lawyers by headcount. 

  • Davies 
  • Torys 
  • Goodmans 
  • Cassels 

Transactional-focused National Firms - Very Frequently advises on the "highest profile" mandates and event driven deals, but also has a national platform with regular roster of blue chip clients (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal etc). Large officers with many lawyers in other departments on board that frequently advise on corporate and deal aspects of L&E, competition, pensions, RE and the like. 

  • Osler 
  • Stikeman
  • Blakes
  • McCarthy Tetrault

True National Full Service Platforms - Has a roster of blue chip clients but also a freestanding litigation platform that doesn't always depend on corporate to generate work. Offices with almost 100 lawyers or more in each major city. Will advise client on everything and anything (class action, transaction, labour and employment, corporate finance) they require. More likely to have L&E, competition, pensions, RE carry their own files as opposed to just advising on deals aspects. 

  • McCarthy (though also strong transactional ranking like above category)
  • BLG
  • NRF
  • Fasken
  • Gowling
  • Dentons 

Ontario Regional Full Service Firms - active Ontario focused practice that generally deals with middle market and smaller deals in real property, corporate commercial law, litigation, insurance claims etc. More private company work. 

  • Weirfoulds 
  • A&B
  • Fogler 
  • Torkin Manes 
  • Blaney

Specialized Boutiques - one office, focuses on specific area, often very good at what they do

  • Lenczner
  • Paliare Roland
  • Glaholt 
  • Bereskin 
  • Smart and Biggar
  • etc. 

Big transactions more frequently make the paper, hence the Sister moniker for firms in the first two categories. The firm you choose depends may depend on what type of experience you want, whether you want to be a litigator, specialty practice, regulatory or deal lawyer, how you feel about the people at the firm and the hireback rates.  

 

 

Edited by OzStudent
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, OWH said:

My post was somewhat tongue in cheek. There tends to be a lot of navel gazing around here.

I appreciate the fact that it might take some years to gain perspective. But I would respectfully submit that someone who has multiple offers is going to be ok regardless of which opportunity they choose. If you have 5 offers, chances are pretty high, dare I say certain, that if the choice you made doesn't turn out to be right for you, then you will land softly somewhere that is a better fit. 

I know a lot of really average students who do very well in the recruit, but soon enough their lazy ways shine through their work product. Professional success is in no way determined by your success in the recruit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I know a lot of really average students who do very well in the recruit, but soon enough their lazy ways shine through their work product. Professional success is in no way determined by your success in the recruit.

This x2. Also, the skills it takes to be an excellent law student are often not the skills you need to be an excellent lawyer, at least on the transactional side. I found law school was much less organized, much less time-sensitive, and frankly, quite a bit easier, than practicing law. The amount of unstructured free-time and ability to backload most of your work to the end of the semester is not something you'll find at a law firm (or most other high-stakes jobs).

Edited by hitman9172
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OWH said:

My post was somewhat tongue in cheek. There tends to be a lot of navel gazing around here.

I appreciate the fact that it might take some years to gain perspective. But I would respectfully submit that someone who has multiple offers is going to be ok regardless of which opportunity they choose. If you have 5 offers, chances are pretty high, dare I say certain, that if the choice you made doesn't turn out to be right for you, then you will land softly somewhere that is a better fit. 

 

Edited by lvrgdfinguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, CoffeeandLaw said:

I don’t want to comment any further on rankings, but I actually think this is something that should be more widely spoken about on the board. All of the mods likely know who you are based on your email, and many other people could probably figure it out if they tried. Quite a few people know who I am on here. 

This is a good point. I know the identity of a couple people on here from just being bored and browsing through post history and seeing something identifying. And I’m a 0L and know no one here IRL.

And the mods 100% know who we all are via email (unless you were smart enough to use a fake, but I also think they have our IP addresses so...) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...