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Articling Hireback 2020

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7 hours ago, chaboywb said:

Hireback is consistent with the past few years - is this a sign that the firms don't foresee the current economic situation as dire, or is it just too early for the impact to be felt?

Well most large firms hire for the long term. Even if they anticipate having a terrible second and third quarter they will need to have lawyers on hand for when the work picks back up. Even if business doesn’t get busy again until next year, you’ll eventually need the associates. Let’s assume business gets back to normal in March 2021. If they let go half the articling class the summer prior they’d be out of luck. 
 

I assume that if business continues to be slow for a long period (assuming it’s slow now) then you would see an impact on hiring. I’m very curious to see what OCI hiring will be like this year. I think that will be more telling. From what I’m hearing amongst my friends, hireback rates will be good at all the biggest firms (I’m trying to indicate which firms I’m referring to without offending anyone lol)

 

 

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On 4/27/2020 at 11:59 PM, cul8rlitig8or said:

Taboo topic, but is anyone willing to disclose hire back offers/ packages that they received, your general location & firm size/ area of law for 2020? Curious if COVID-19 has affected the going rates in 2020 for first year associates. 

We'll have to wait for written offer letters for those details, but I agree that we should discuss it. I think the first year salary will largely remain at $110K for most large firms, but what interests me are the start dates everyone gets. 

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24 minutes ago, Dart said:

We'll have to wait for written offer letters for those details, but I agree that we should discuss it. I think the first year salary will largely remain at $110K for most large firms, but what interests me are the start dates everyone gets. 

I know it hasn’t been decided at some firms. They probably want to see how busy they are or how things pan out for articling students. I don’t think articling students have a firm start date either (that I’m aware of)

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, healthlaw said:

I know it hasn’t been decided at some firms. They probably want to see how busy they are or how things pan out for articling students. I don’t think articling students have a firm start date either (that I’m aware of)

My firm still hasn't decided and it's driving me absolutely nuts...by "how things pan out for articling students" do you mean how busy the students are and what they will be capable of as first-year associates?

Edited by Disputes

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3 minutes ago, Disputes said:

My firm still hasn't decided and it's driving me absolutely nuts...by "how things pan out for articling students" do you mean how busy the students are and what they will be capable of as first-year associates?

No sorry. I meant when their incoming articling students will write the bar. My understanding is that firms will finalize articling student start dates once they know when the bar exams are (I know that most firms ask their students to write the exams before articling begins). 

firms are not going to attempt to on-board a batch of associates at the same time they bring back 15-30 articling students. They also likely won’t want to start the new associates right away if things are super slow (hence my earlier comment about things being slow/articling student start date)

My understanding is that the LSO recently set the dates for the bar so I assume you should hear back soon. I also wouldn’t be hesitant to just ask the person in charge of the student program. No one gets annoyed by receiving a professional email and they understand you guys are a bit anxious 

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heard Gowlings and dentons hired back. don't know numbers

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42 minutes ago, sman99 said:

heard Gowlings and dentons hired back. don't know numbers

Heard Gowlings was about ~50%

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Rearden
Point had already been made.

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Posted (edited)

Heard Dentons hired 9/11 and BJs 100% (both Toronto)

Edited by CoffeeandLaw
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8 hours ago, besmackin said:

Heard Gowlings was about ~50%

Gowlings hired 7/16 apparently. Goodmans hired 11/14 but gave the other 3 contract positions.

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8 hours ago, Dart said:

Gowlings hired 7/16 apparently. Goodmans hired 11/14 but gave the other 3 contract positions.

So less than half the class? Brutal. 
 

This is an important thread - this is the type of info I would have wanted to see when picking a firm as a 2L. There is also the hireback watch on precedentjd.com but I didn’t know about it at the time and I suspect others may not as well

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38 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

So less than half the class? Brutal. 
 

This is an important thread - this is the type of info I would have wanted to see when picking a firm as a 2L. There is also the hireback watch on precedentjd.com but I didn’t know about it at the time and I suspect others may not as well

Not surprising for Gowling though. Other than the last two years, they’ve been consistently terrible at hiring back since 2009.

https://precedentjd.com/firm/gowling-wlg/?watch=hireback-watch

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1 hour ago, easttowest said:

Not surprising for Gowling though. Other than the last two years, they’ve been consistently terrible at hiring back since 2009.

https://precedentjd.com/firm/gowling-wlg/?watch=hireback-watch

Interesting dilemma. Should they hire fewer students, given they apparently don't have room for the whole cohort, thereby reducing articling opportunities?

Is it good or bad that a firm over leverages articling spaces?

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17 minutes ago, TKNumber3 said:

Interesting dilemma. Should they hire fewer students, given they apparently don't have room for the whole cohort, thereby reducing articling opportunities?

Is it good or bad that a firm over leverages articling spaces?

Overall, I think it’s good. I would rather leave the 2L recruit with a job at Gowling and a 50% shot at being hired back than leave it without a job.

I can’t really think of any arguments against them hiring larger articling cohorts than they plan to hire back as associates. 

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22 minutes ago, TKNumber3 said:

Interesting dilemma. Should they hire fewer students, given they apparently don't have room for the whole cohort, thereby reducing articling opportunities?

Is it good or bad that a firm over leverages articling spaces?

It’s likely good that students get jobs. It’s on students to do their research and apply accordingly. 

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Overall, I think it’s good. I would rather leave the 2L recruit with a job at Gowling and a 50% shot at being hired back than leave it without a job.

I can’t really think of any arguments against them hiring larger articling cohorts than they plan to hire back as associates. 

I suppose I agree. Especially if this is a consistent trend and you know what you’re signing up for as a student. But I would also factor this into my decision if deciding between them and another firm 

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2 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

I suppose I agree. Especially if this is a consistent trend and you know what you’re signing up for as a student. But I would also factor this into my decision if deciding between them and another firm 

Definitely this. The criticism I have is toward CDOs who need the sponsorship dollars from the big firms and therefore play up the lie that all firms are good and you’ll be happy everywhere. I found precedentjd from lurking on this site over the years and introduced it to all of my friends doing the recruit. Resources like that should be widely distributed by schools themselves, but instead we get shitty faculty T-shirts with a bunch of firm logos on the back.

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6 hours ago, easttowest said:

Definitely this. The criticism I have is toward CDOs who need the sponsorship dollars from the big firms and therefore play up the lie that all firms are good and you’ll be happy everywhere. I found precedentjd from lurking on this site over the years and introduced it to all of my friends doing the recruit. Resources like that should be widely distributed by schools themselves, but instead we get shitty faculty T-shirts with a bunch of firm logos on the back.

The CDOs are not the only folks with an interest in making all the firms seem like they are on equal footing.

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48 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

The CDOs are not the only folks with an interest in making all the firms seem like they are on equal footing.

No, certainly not. But they’re the ones at schools providing supposedly helpful advice about the structured recruit.

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7 minutes ago, easttowest said:

No, certainly not. But they’re the ones at schools providing supposedly helpful advice about the structured recruit.

I don’t disagree, and their main role seems to be resume readers. I didn’t find them particularly helpful while I was going through recruit, but those are the breaks. They’re largely not even ex-OCI firm lawyers. Still, being hired, even at firms that barely hire people back, is a good thing, as you can then be a lawyer. But I agree students should know, which is why the PrecedentJD site, and this website (if you ignore the people that want to make all firms sound equal) are valuable.

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