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1ceman

COVID Job Security - Should I Make a Change?

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45 minutes ago, Eeee said:

$220 is shockingly low. Is that just labour/employment?

shockingly low? what's the number like then in other practice areas? 

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On 4/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, QuincyWagstaff said:

I don't know man; how is the job market looking for these downtown/Big Law firms you're (considering) considering? Are they hiring? 

This will continue far beyond the next month. If you want more job security, I would look to areas of law that will have some security during some of darkest economic times in 100 years. That is not necessarily tied to the size of the employer. 

 

 

Job market in my area of interest (labour/employment) isn't great. But there have been some recent postings at gig law (Osler) and professional service groups (KPMG and Deloitte). I'd be more inclined for the latter opportunities as the big law life doesn't appeal to me at all (aside from salary).

On 4/6/2020 at 12:43 PM, happydude said:

True at the junior levels if Bay Steet salaries have been cut by as much as 20%, hence why I added "when times are booming". Covid-19 will not last forever. 

But at any rate, I was more so referencing the pay gap at the senior levels (and to a lesser extent, the intermediate levels), when it can be pretty dramatic. My understanding is that many government lawyers cap out at around 180k (which is certainly a great salary, by any reasonable and objective measure). A Bay Street associate can earn that as a 6th year call - not in his or her 40s, 50, and 60s. And that is before any Bay Street bonus. If one sticks around to make partners (granted,  few will), the gap can be huge.

Of course, government employment has its own perks. Defined benefit pension. Unmatched job security. And generally, though not always from what I have gathered from those on the inside, less hours and stress, with a few lucky ones even working mostly 9 to 5 with no weekends.

I heard there were salary cuts but had no idea they went as high as 20%...still a 20% cut to a big law salary is still close to my full salary at the moment. 

22 hours ago, BringBackCrunchBerries said:

When is the baby due? Maybe you'll get laid off right before it's born, giving you an optimally timed but super sad paternity leave!

 

Baby is due end of September. Unfortunately I feel like if I do get laid off, it'll be well before then. We're trying to set aside as much $$ as possible to make my wife's mat/parental leave as seamless as possible, financially. 

15 hours ago, tanx said:

it might be difficult in general for you to switch to in house though, covid or not. Boutique litigation doesn’t really lend well to that 

Totally agree. There are some in-house positions restricted to labour/employment, but they generally require 5+ years of experience. I am hoping to get more corporate exposure in anticipation of making the switch to in-house eventually.

6 hours ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

I assumed he meant in-house with an insurance company. 
 

 

Definitely not. I did mostly insurance defence during articles and feel like once your an ID lawyer, you're stuck there for life (unless you want to cross to PI). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not prepared to pigeonhole myself.

2 hours ago, sunnyskies1992 said:

I would be applying widely and considering any job offers I received very seriously. It's an extremely competitive job market right now with all of the layoffs that have recently occurred, and likely not a time where you'll get to pick and choose between multiple offers. Right now a paying employer is a good employer. If you do get laid off, apply for benefits as soon as possible as the government is wading through 1.5 million+ applications and you don't want to be at the back of the line. 

I'm not at the point where I would accept ANYTHING, but I'm keeping an eye out for jobs that are more suited to my employment/labour interests. If the right fit comes along, I'll apply right away.

 

Thanks everyone! Didn't expect this kind of response.

-1M

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18 hours ago, levin said:

shockingly low? what's the number like then in other practice areas? 

I make just under that as an associate for reference.

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On 4/7/2020 at 1:15 PM, Pyke said:

I mean, I’m going from first hand accounts who are friends, who are also partners, at big national firms. 
 

I haven’t done a systematic survey - but my sources are pretty good. 

Really? Partners at big national firms make high $100 to low $200? I'm in-house and I'm in that range. That seems pretty low for private practice.

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9 minutes ago, tanx said:

Really? Partners at big national firms make high $100 to low $200? I'm house and I'm in that range. That seems pretty low for private practice.

Agreed; that’s why I assumed Pyke actually meant (senior) associates. 
 

Perhaps these are salaried “partners”? 
Hard to imagine borrowing money to buy in to a BigLaw firm, then earning 200K or less, per year. 
 

Edited by QuincyWagstaff

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1 minute ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

Agreed; that’s why I assumed Pyke actually meant (senior) associates. 
 

Perhaps these are salaried “partners”? 

still, though...

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6 hours ago, tanx said:

still, though...

No partner is making that money at a large Toronto law firm, that’s barely mid level associate money 

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31 minutes ago, WannaBeLaw99 said:

No partner is making that money at a large Toronto law firm, that’s barely mid level associate money 

Okay, whatever. They’re all making $10 million a year. 

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I'm making $42,000,000 a day selling my body.

Take that, losers.

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3 hours ago, Pyke said:

Okay, whatever. They’re all making $10 million a year. 

No partner at a Bay Street firm is making under $200K, you are full of shit 

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I make over $200K as an associate. I agree that at the top firms nobody in partnership is making less than that gross.

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18 hours ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

Agreed; that’s why I assumed Pyke actually meant (senior) associates. 
 

Perhaps these are salaried “partners”? 
Hard to imagine borrowing money to buy in to a BigLaw firm, then earning 200K or less, per year. 
 

Our mid-level (4-6) associates make a bit less than $200k base. And while it makes sense to discount bonus this year, usually it’s 10-20% depending on hours and other factors. Seems silly, most years, to just not consider an annual lump sum payment of several tens of thousands of dollars when comparing to potential compensation in other jobs. Most mid-level associates on Bay are bringing in comp over $200k when considering bonus. Then there’s the CPD and business development budgets and they’ll pay for your gym and sports memberships and give you money to buy stuff for a home office, and they’re giving you the latest smart phone with unlimited everything. Many are taxable benefits but they help.

That said, you have to sell your soul in exchange.

 

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36 minutes ago, leafs_law said:

Our mid-level (4-6) associates make a bit less than $200k base. And while it makes sense to discount bonus this year, usually it’s 10-20% depending on hours and other factors. Seems silly, most years, to just not consider an annual lump sum payment of several tens of thousands of dollars when comparing to potential compensation in other jobs. Most mid-level associates on Bay are bringing in comp over $200k when considering bonus. Then there’s the CPD and business development budgets and they’ll pay for your gym and sports memberships and give you money to buy stuff for a home office, and they’re giving you the latest smart phone with unlimited everything. Many are taxable benefits but they help.

That said, you have to sell your soul in exchange.

 

Already sold that to get into law school. What else can I sell?

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