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Am I being unreasonable for not choosing Osgoode because of tuition price, even if I am not paying for it?

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TL;DR - My dad can pay for my tuition no matter where I go, but I taking so much money from him to go to Osgoode would probably screw my mental health with guilt. Should I still go? Or go to Uvic?

Hi All,

Right now, I have been accepted and am deciding between going to UVic or Osgoode. There are just so many factors to consider that I still have not made a clear decision after two weeks of deciding. Now I know that everyone says that I should go to wherever I want to live and work at, but even then I am not 100% certain; although I do lean more towards Osgoode. I have lived in Vancouver my whole life and Toronto seems new and exciting; but never having been there, I have no idea if I would actually like living and working there. I feel that choosing UVic is the "safe" decision, since it has its focus on the Vancouver market and I know what Vancouver is like.

Now I know after saying that, many of the replies (if there are any) will be to choose Osgoode since I have expressed my interest in living in Toronto, but what is stopping me is the crazy high tuition. Not only that, but the cost of living expenses and everything else that comes with moving. I know that I will have to move either way since Uvic isn't located in Vancouver, but it doesn't cost as much as Toronto and most importantly, the tuition is hella cheap. 

However, I will not deny that I am super fortunate, and my dad has told me he will pay for my tuition regardless of where I go. We are a middle-income family and I know he can afford Osgoode tuition + Toronto living expenses. But... he is now retired (same for my mom) and I do not wish to take that much money from him. He has assured me that I should not let money decide where I want to study and that he can afford it, but I just cannot ignore that factor. I just can't let my dad spend that much money for me. I feel that I would owe him more than I could ever repay. What makes it worse is that I feel like I am not that close on an emotional level with my dad (due to personal reasons), making it harder to accept the money. Regardless, I love him and I know he loves me. So... do you guys think I am being unreasonable? Or should I just take advantage of my fortunate circumstances, rid myself of guilt, and take the money?

There are obviously other factors to consider, such as distance from family, friends, and girlfriend, but for me, this is the most important factor. I am leaning towards Osgoode, but I feel that if I do take the money and go, the constant daily guilt and being so far away from family and girlfriend would probably kill my mental health.

Do you guys have any advice? I am quite desperate to hear opinions. Thank you.

 

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Hi there, I would suggest you go to UVic. Based on this statement you made, it seems like it would probably be the best for your well being.  It is however, at the end of the day, your decision to make.

4 minutes ago, YeetLaw said:

I am leaning towards Osgoode, but I feel that if I do take the money and go, the constant daily guilt and being so far away from family and girlfriend would probably kill my mental health.

 

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4 minutes ago, PropJoe said:

Hi there, I would suggest you go to UVic. Based on this statement you made, it seems like it would probably be the best for your well being.  It is however, at the end of the day, your decision to make.

 

Thanks for your suggestion. I'll take it to heart; although I could say that "kill" my mental health was a bit of an exaggeration haha.

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7 minutes ago, YeetLaw said:

Thanks for your suggestion. I'll take it to heart; although I could say that "kill" my mental health was a bit of an exaggeration haha.

No problem. I would just like to also say that U Vic tuition is a pretty sweet deal. 

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28 minutes ago, YeetLaw said:

 

TL;DR - My dad can pay for my tuition no matter where I go, but I taking so much money from him to go to Osgoode would probably screw my mental health with guilt. Should I still go? Or go to Uvic?

Hi All,

Right now, I have been accepted and am deciding between going to UVic or Osgoode. There are just so many factors to consider that I still have not made a clear decision after two weeks of deciding. Now I know that everyone says that I should go to wherever I want to live and work at, but even then I am not 100% certain; although I do lean more towards Osgoode. I have lived in Vancouver my whole life and Toronto seems new and exciting; but never having been there, I have no idea if I would actually like living and working there. I feel that choosing UVic is the "safe" decision, since it has its focus on the Vancouver market and I know what Vancouver is like.

Now I know after saying that, many of the replies (if there are any) will be to choose Osgoode since I have expressed my interest in living in Toronto, but what is stopping me is the crazy high tuition. Not only that, but the cost of living expenses and everything else that comes with moving. I know that I will have to move either way since Uvic isn't located in Vancouver, but it doesn't cost as much as Toronto and most importantly, the tuition is hella cheap. 

However, I will not deny that I am super fortunate, and my dad has told me he will pay for my tuition regardless of where I go. We are a middle-income family and I know he can afford Osgoode tuition + Toronto living expenses. But... he is now retired (same for my mom) and I do not wish to take that much money from him. He has assured me that I should not let money decide where I want to study and that he can afford it, but I just cannot ignore that factor. I just can't let my dad spend that much money for me. I feel that I would owe him more than I could ever repay. What makes it worse is that I feel like I am not that close on an emotional level with my dad (due to personal reasons), making it harder to accept the money. Regardless, I love him and I know he loves me. So... do you guys think I am being unreasonable? Or should I just take advantage of my fortunate circumstances, rid myself of guilt, and take the money?

There are obviously other factors to consider, such as distance from family, friends, and girlfriend, but for me, this is the most important factor. I am leaning towards Osgoode, but I feel that if I do take the money and go, the constant daily guilt and being so far away from family and girlfriend would probably kill my mental health.

Do you guys have any advice? I am quite desperate to hear opinions. Thank you.

 

Couldn't you just take out loans instead of depending on your family for financial support? Many law students, including myself, paid for law school on our own through loans and bursaries. 

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I'm not going to tell you what school to choose but I just wanted to share my experience, having been in somewhat of a similar situation before. 

I'm an international student. I'm finishing my undergrad this April and starting at Osgoode in the fall. I completely understand what you mean about feeling guilty about your dad spending all that money on you. I went through something similar when I moved to Canada. My parents have basically paid my tuition all through undergrad (and they will for law school as well). While I'm by no means from an incredibly wealthy family, my parents have made a lot of scarifies to support me, and it can feel like a burden sometimes knowing how much I have "taken" from them.

But one thing I can tell you is that they made a willing choice to support (and your dad is clearly ready to support you), so all you can really do is show gratitude through your actions/what you end up doing in the long run. At this point, there is nothing you can realistically do to repay them. 

I just think you shouldn't let the guilt hold you back from making your decision, especially when your dad has given you his full support.

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9 minutes ago, NeverGiveUp said:

Osgoode is in Toronto but not in a good area.

Toronto is a good area. I went to York, having grown up elsewhere in Canada, and certainly appreciated the opportunity to experience life in Toronto.

24 minutes ago, YeetLaw said:

He has assured me that I should not let money decide where I want to study and that he can afford it,

There is something to be said for trusting him when he tells you that this is what he wants to spend his money on. Providing you with the opportunity to spend some time in a new and exciting place has value in itself!

Perhaps one way you could mitigate this is to give your father a bit of a window into how that is playing out. Like, when you to go orientation at Old Osgoode Hall, or the CNE, or a Blue Jays game, e-mail him some photos.

You should think about whether you're confident that he would be able to pay for tuition and living expenses for all three years. Things can change. For instance, a 30% drop in the stock market could impact one's retirement savings.

29 minutes ago, YeetLaw said:

the constant daily guilt and being so far away from family and girlfriend would probably kill my mental health

If this is really true - if you really think you couldn't get past the guilt - then no, it's not unreasonable to make this a major factor in your decision. Law school itself affects people in different ways and sometimes that includes mental health impacts. I'd be hesitant about going in with an existing major mental health pressure if it can be avoided.

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1 minute ago, Deadpool said:

Couldn't you just take out loans instead of depending on your family for financial support? Many law students, including myself, paid for law school on our own through loans and bursaries. 

and you seriously would have taken the loan even if you had an offer from a family member, who you know can afford it? You know, those bursaries are supposed to be for people who need financial support, not people that turn down tuition $$ for the sake of, I don't know, pride and self reliance? It's cool that you paid for law school youself but it doesn't mean people should be turning down financial support.

I think OP is being really reasonable. 

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2 minutes ago, kaap said:

I'm an international student. I'm finishing my undergrad this April and starting at Osgoode in the fall. I completely understand what you mean about feeling guilty about your dad spending all that money on you. I went through something similar when I moved to Canada. My parents have basically paid my tuition all through undergrad (and they will for law school as well). While I'm by no means from an incredibly wealthy family, my parents have made a lot of scarifies to support me, and it can feel like a burden sometimes knowing how much I have "taken" from them.

don't worry too much. there is no free lunch in this world. they will not say it explicitly, but there is a good chance that they will expect/ thank you greatly once you start making monthly payments to them as they grow old and once you've settled down with a good job, started a fam, etc. at least that's what my international student friends told me! 

if it weren't covid, i'd have suggested you visit toronto and see how you like the city.  i have some colleagues who moved to toronto for work and they are constantly talking shit about toronto. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, whereverjustice said:

Toronto is a good area. I went to York, having grown up elsewhere in Canada, and certainly appreciated the opportunity to experience life in Toronto.

York is near Jane / Finch. I wouldn't say it is a good area.

Edited by NeverGiveUp
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Posted (edited)

If you're leaning towards Osgoode, maybe you could suggest setting up a kind of loan system with your dad. Maybe you won't repay the full amount, but maybe you two can agree on a number that you will repay and send some money every month towards that goal. Your dad can still pay for your schooling, but you can mitigate some of the guilt.

I'd also suggest you do the most you can to find out what Osgoode's like, and even what practicing law in Toronto is like. Ideally you'd go visit the school, but obviously that's not possible now. They probably have student ambassadors with contact info on the law school website - if there's anyone there from BC, reach out, ask them why they made the decision to move across the country, and if they want to work in Toronto then why.

Edited by lewcifer
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32 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

Couldn't you just take out loans instead of depending on your family for financial support? Many law students, including myself, paid for law school on our own through loans and bursaries. 

You do have a really good point and it something that I failed to mention in my original post. Even so, I am still uncertain if Osgoode's education and location really justifies the huge amount that it costs compared to that of UVic. If both choices can get me a JD that lets me practice law, why choose the one that gives me debt? 

What I kind of what to ask if anyone here can answer, is what their stance or opinion is on if getting easier access to the Toronto market is worth the costs of paying Osgoode's tuition?

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36 minutes ago, kaap said:

I'm not going to tell you what school to choose but I just wanted to share my experience, having been in somewhat of a similar situation before. 

I'm an international student. I'm finishing my undergrad this April and starting at Osgoode in the fall. I completely understand what you mean about feeling guilty about your dad spending all that money on you. I went through something similar when I moved to Canada. My parents have basically paid my tuition all through undergrad (and they will for law school as well). While I'm by no means from an incredibly wealthy family, my parents have made a lot of scarifies to support me, and it can feel like a burden sometimes knowing how much I have "taken" from them.

But one thing I can tell you is that they made a willing choice to support (and your dad is clearly ready to support you), so all you can really do is show gratitude through your actions/what you end up doing in the long run. At this point, there is nothing you can realistically do to repay them. 

I just think you shouldn't let the guilt hold you back from making your decision, especially when your dad has given you his full support.

Hi kaap,

Thanks so much for the encouraging words. I guess that means you think I should take the money haha. I will take your advice into consideration.

18 minutes ago, lewcifer said:

If you're leaning towards Osgoode, maybe you could suggest setting up a kind of loan system with your dad. Maybe you won't repay the full amount, but maybe you two can agree on a number that you will repay and send some money every month towards that goal. Your dad can still pay for your schooling, but you can mitigate some of the guilt.

I'd also suggest you do the most you can to find out what Osgoode's like, and even what practicing law in Toronto is like. Ideally you'd go visit the school, but obviously that's not possible now. They probably have student ambassadors with contact info on the law school website - if there's anyone there from BC, reach out, ask them why they made the decision to move across the country, and if they want to work in Toronto then why.

That is actually really good advice. Maybe doing a bit, even if small will put my mind at ease. Thanks!

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Oh and I just want to say that I have read every reply so far and want to thank all of you for the advice, even if I haven't explicitly replied.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, WindsorHopeful said:

and you seriously would have taken the loan even if you had an offer from a family member, who you know can afford it? You know, those bursaries are supposed to be for people who need financial support, not people that turn down tuition $$ for the sake of, I don't know, pride and self reliance? It's cool that you paid for law school youself but it doesn't mean people should be turning down financial support.

I think OP is being really reasonable. 

OP is an adult. They come from a middle-income family and are not emotionally close with their father, who also happens to be retired. Look, just because a family member says they can, and are willing to, throw down tens of thousands of dollars to pay for your tuition, does not mean that you should take their money. If taking money from their family will "kill their mental health" (a phrase OP mentions a couple times throughout their post), then I am not sure why you think they should still continue to do just that. 

And you think only students whose families cannot pay for their law school tuition deserve financial support and bursaries for law school? I won't get into those arguments here, but there are many students whose families have money, but will not or cannot pay tens of thousands of dollars for their post-secondary. 

In this case, OP's father sounds generous enough, but if taking money from the family will put an unnecessary burden on them and cause mental health issues, it is not worth it. I'd rather be self-reliant than be a burden on my family. Anyways, that's my own personal take on this issue. 

OP, I was low-income, went to Osgoode, and have no regrets. PM me if you'd like to discuss further on how I made it work. 

 

Edited by Deadpool
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I choose to go to UVic because of the low tuition and to live with my extended family (free rent is a godsend in Victoria).

My family is also comfortably middle class and I know they would be willing to pay for my education, but I still haven't asked them to help out. I hesitate to ask them for money because I had a very frugal childhood and I know they worked hard to get to the point where they are now comfortably retired. Luckily, we have a close relationship.

I try to get over my guilt by talking to them openly about money. I had a conversation with them where I presented them with a budget I made that projected until I finished law school, and explained how long I thought my savings would last and everything I was doing to reduce costs. I don't know your situation, but for me my parents just want me to succeed and be happy, and offering to pay my fees is how they show they believe in me and support me. I don't have to be guilty because for them it isn't a waste of money, it's an investment in me. Being super clear with each other meant that we could openly respect the actions we were both taking (my parents respect how I try to reduce costs, I respect how generous they are). Again I don't know your circumstances but assuming your dad raised you, you can already never repay him for all he has done, and in my mind it's not "taking advantage" when it is a gift. However there could be other factors we don't know that may be influencing your decision. 

However if your relationship is already strained, money usually makes the situation worse. My partner's relationship with his parents is extremely strained, but they currently channel all their grievances into a fight over how much tuition money each parent provides to the kids. Money can turn bad relationships ugly, but obviously, this is an extreme example.

If you do choose to go to UVic I find it is an amazing, supportive school and I wouldn't want to be studying anywhere else. Beyond location, I would look into what courses each school offers (I think UVic is limited compared to larger schools), clinics, academic supports for mental health and such. UVic has the amicus program, which offers group and individual tutoring for free, a dedicated counsellor just for the law students, and cultural supports. Have you lived away from home before? I moved to the Quebec for a year and realized the west coast really spoils you for good weather. I don't know a lot of winter sports, so I mostly watched instagram stories of my friends frolicking in cherry blossoms while my iphone froze to death every time I left the house. It was depressing. I've done long distance relationships and technology helps a lot, but they suck. Video calling is not the same as a hug. 

Whatever you choose, I think your dad would respect the fact that you are taking this decision seriously. From his point of view: Do you think he would want to know that you choose which school to go to based on not wanting to upset him? 

 

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15 minutes ago, cheesy said:

I choose to go to UVic because of the low tuition and to live with my extended family (free rent is a godsend in Victoria).

My family is also comfortably middle class and I know they would be willing to pay for my education, but I still haven't asked them to help out. I hesitate to ask them for money because I had a very frugal childhood and I know they worked hard to get to the point where they are now comfortably retired. Luckily, we have a close relationship.

I try to get over my guilt by talking to them openly about money. I had a conversation with them where I presented them with a budget I made that projected until I finished law school, and explained how long I thought my savings would last and everything I was doing to reduce costs. I don't know your situation, but for me my parents just want me to succeed and be happy, and offering to pay my fees is how they show they believe in me and support me. I don't have to be guilty because for them it isn't a waste of money, it's an investment in me. Being super clear with each other meant that we could openly respect the actions we were both taking (my parents respect how I try to reduce costs, I respect how generous they are). Again I don't know your circumstances but assuming your dad raised you, you can already never repay him for all he has done, and in my mind it's not "taking advantage" when it is a gift. However there could be other factors we don't know that may be influencing your decision. 

However if your relationship is already strained, money usually makes the situation worse. My partner's relationship with his parents is extremely strained, but they currently channel all their grievances into a fight over how much tuition money each parent provides to the kids. Money can turn bad relationships ugly, but obviously, this is an extreme example.

If you do choose to go to UVic I find it is an amazing, supportive school and I wouldn't want to be studying anywhere else. Beyond location, I would look into what courses each school offers (I think UVic is limited compared to larger schools), clinics, academic supports for mental health and such. UVic has the amicus program, which offers group and individual tutoring for free, a dedicated counsellor just for the law students, and cultural supports. Have you lived away from home before? I moved to the Quebec for a year and realized the west coast really spoils you for good weather. I don't know a lot of winter sports, so I mostly watched instagram stories of my friends frolicking in cherry blossoms while my iphone froze to death every time I left the house. It was depressing. I've done long distance relationships and technology helps a lot, but they suck. Video calling is not the same as a hug. 

Whatever you choose, I think your dad would respect the fact that you are taking this decision seriously. From his point of view: Do you think he would want to know that you choose which school to go to based on not wanting to upset him? 

 

Thanks for your insight. I definitely wouldn't say my relationship with my dad is "strained," it is just not super close from an emotional aspect and I definitely think he would not be upset no matter what I chose, since it is my life after all.  I am the one studying law, not him. Nevertheless, your statements about the weather is something I actually forgot to consider haha! 

Ugh, this is only making my decisions harder... and you're right, long distance relationships do suck.

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York

Tuition: 27k

Rent/living: 15k

Total over 3 years: 126k

Median Salary in Toronto: 95k

UVic

Tuition: 9k

Total after 3 years: 27k

Median Salary for Canada as I couldn't get UVic numbers: 75k

 

So it would take you ~5 years to make back that 100k difference. Personally, I would pay my dad back the 100k and go to Osgoode, but it's up to you. 

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2 hours ago, reckless332 said:

York

Tuition: 27k

Rent/living: 15k

Total over 3 years: 126k

Median Salary in Toronto: 95k

UVic

Tuition: 9k

Total after 3 years: 27k

Median Salary for Canada as I couldn't get UVic numbers: 75k

 

So it would take you ~5 years to make back that 100k difference. Personally, I would pay my dad back the 100k and go to Osgoode, but it's up to you. 

What makes you prefer Osgoode? Is what Osgoode offers worth the 100k difference? Is it the bay street prospects? Or just the fact that it's Toronto?

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