Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, beyondsection17 said:

 

Oh also, when weighing opinions on this subject, keep in mind that UofT law students on this website who've paid the exorbitant tuition that UofT charges probably have a vested interest in proving to you, and to themselves, that the reputation UofT carries is worth the cost. I don't know that it is. But hey - I didn't go to UofT.

Best of luck with your decision!

Haha!  I think I'm the only U of T grad who has commented in this thread and I told him that Western was probably a better choice for him. :)

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, mistertubby said:

my heart wants western but my head knows that UofT makes the most sense for me. ive been accepted to the jd/ma econ which is a program ive been wanting for a few years now.

is it really better? do you feel like you know your classmates? do you socialize with them? do you live with other students? 

It is a completely different experience. Undergrad felt disjointed - the people in one of your classes were not the same in the others, with the odd occasion where one or two similar faces showed up in a class or two. There was no opportunity to make genuine friendships.

I know my classmates at UofT Law. I regard some of them as genuine friends (meaning not as "law school" friends but as friends in general). I commute, so I am honestly rarely on campus and I still feel this way about some people. If I lived near campus/spent more time there, I am sure I'd have even stronger friendships. There is ample opportunity to socialize at law school events, but also since you make legitimate friendships, you can go to lunch/dinner/coffee/movie/drinks/whatever with your friends from law school whenever (and this isn't a unique thing since many people do hang out with friends they met from law school in non-law school settings given what I see on social media). Many friends invite people over to their apartments regularly just to chill or celebrate birthdays or whatever. I commuted so i never lived with other students, but that is very common and can lead to friendship building too.

Not saying you won't get the same thing at Western. Just saying that UT law, based on my experience, does not suffer from a lack of community, and is significantly different than undergrad at UofT.

Edited by Ghalm
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mistertubby said:

my heart wants western but my head knows that UofT makes the most sense for me. ive been accepted to the jd/ma econ which is a program ive been wanting for a few years now.

is it really better? do you feel like you know your classmates? do you socialize with them? do you live with other students? 

What draws you to jd/ma econ? I can’t speak for the jd part, but the vibe at UofT econ sucked. It could very well vary by year and the type of humans who are admitted, but overall there was little socializing/ working together. i attempted to “make friends” during the summer math bootcamp they force you to attend before the classes start, but the atmosphere was sterile and unfriendly/ kinda condescending (like they’d look down at you if you’ve never done *real* math like real analysis). that didn’t really change throughout the academic year. maybe just consider econ as a bonus to your law stuff and you might not mind as much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, levin said:

What draws you to jd/ma econ? I can’t speak for the jd part, but the vibe at UofT econ sucked. It could very well vary by year and the type of humans who are admitted, but overall there was little socializing/ working together. i attempted to “make friends” during the summer math bootcamp they force you to attend before the classes start, but the atmosphere was sterile and unfriendly/ kinda condescending (like they’d look down at you if you’ve never done *real* math like real analysis). that didn’t really change throughout the academic year. maybe just consider econ as a bonus to your law stuff and you might not mind as much. 

i dont doubt for a second what you’re saying. the ma program might as well be a fifth year of undergrad. its not bound to be collegial in any respect because the program is so short. 

that being said, the ma econ provides a potential source of funding for me, it doesn’t add any extra time to jd, i get a masters out of it and i genuinely like economics. if the econ community stinks, i can live with it because ill almost certainly be thinking about it as a bonus like you said. im just looking for a strong JD community. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Deadpool said:

Some additional thoughts - Do you prefer full-year courses (Western) or half-semester courses (U of T)? U of T also has an honours grading system now, while Western is still on the A/B/C grading scale.

definitely prefer half-year courses. i have to say that uoft's 1L program is more attractive than Western's; western makes you do a moot and they stuff in legal ethics/corporate law into first year on top of the year long substantive courses, which im not a huge fan of. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like the semester system is far superior to the year-long system. It would be tough to remember a course's content that would be spread out over nearly a year, for your final exam. UofT adopted the semester system precisely to reduce the stress on students. Having final exams in December also prepare you for final exams in April, which would result in a better performance. 

UofT does cover a bit of legal ethics in first year, though they are based on two day-long sessions, one day per semester. You will write a short reflection for each semester. In the upper years, you need to take one legal ethics course. 

1L moot might be implemented next year, depending on whether the proposed curriculum changes are adopted or not. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very few of the year long classes you have at Western 1L have a cumulative exam, and of the 2 that did my year, only 1 had any substantial focus on material from the 1st semester, so I wouldn't worry too much about the "year long vs semester" distinction, it's over blown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, RunItDownMid said:

It would be tough to remember a course's content that would be spread out over nearly a year

I really hope you are retaining what you learn in law school longer than 6 months. 😅

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, OWH said:

I really hope you are retaining what you learn in law school longer than 6 months. 😅

Haha! Well yes, I definitely will remember the principles and notable case law. But precise details might be a bit hard if I'm not constantly reviewing the information. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Draken said:

Very few of the year long classes you have at Western 1L have a cumulative exam, and of the 2 that did my year, only 1 had any substantial focus on material from the 1st semester, so I wouldn't worry too much about the "year long vs semester" distinction, it's over blown.

That's nice to hear. It definitely reduces the stress on students for April, when they have to prepare for a ton of exams on substantive law, in contrast to the semester system, where you prepare for 2-3 exams per semester. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, RunItDownMid said:

That's nice to hear. It definitely reduces the stress on students for April, when they have to prepare for a ton of exams on substantive law, in contrast to the semester system, where you prepare for 2-3 exams per semester. 

It's really not that difficult to have year long courses with final exams in April. December exams were always 'fail-safe' exams anyway. Many of us survived, believe it or not!  I remember hearing friends at Osgoode bemoaning the semester system back then. It's somewhat odd hearing students say they like it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

It's really not that difficult to have year long courses with final exams in April. December exams were always 'fail-safe' exams anyway. Many of us survived, believe it or not!  I remember hearing friends at Osgoode bemoaning the semester system back then. It's somewhat odd hearing students say they like it now.

Maybe because of the stressful period right before winter holidays? During the December exam period for my 1L exams, I did stress a lot and kinda wished I did not have to do those exams, but once I finished them and got my results back, I was just relieved that it was over and I would only have to worry about a few exams in April. With the December exam experience under my belt, I became more confident for my winter semester studies and the April exams. 

I personally had lengthy courses that depended on one final exam and I underperformed on those. The amount of studying required for numerous courses, with material dating to a long, long time ago, plus having exams all packed into one period was way too much to handle, at least for the younger me. 

Edited by RunItDownMid
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, erinl2 said:

It's really not that difficult to have year long courses with final exams in April. December exams were always 'fail-safe' exams anyway. Many of us survived, believe it or not!  I remember hearing friends at Osgoode bemoaning the semester system back then. It's somewhat odd hearing students say they like it now.

I would have preferred the year long courses in 1L. There are still many Osgoode students, including myself, who bemoan the semester system.

OP, something to consider is that first year can be a shock for a lot of people, so having full-year courses gives you time (and failsafe) options in December to really get into your law school groove.

Edited by Deadpool
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im not quite sure what you guys mean by “fail-safe” options? are you referring to the december midterms that make up a small percentage of your mark but give you feedback on how youre doing? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

I would have preferred the year long courses in 1L. There are still many Osgoode students, including myself, who bemoan the semester system.

OP, something to consider is that first year can be a shock for a lot of people, so having full-year courses gives you time (and failsafe) options in December to really get into your law school groove.

Yes, an excellent point about allowing time to get into a law school groove. My Osgoode friends didn't like that those early grades were the ones that showed up officially for OCI recruitment when they felt they could have done better, and did, on April exams.

 

13 minutes ago, mistertubby said:

im not quite sure what you guys mean by “fail-safe” options? are you referring to the december midterms that make up a small percentage of your mark but give you feedback on how youre doing? 

Schools may do it a little differently but, generally, December exams that were fail-safe, were only included if they helped your final grade. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mistertubby said:

im not quite sure what you guys mean by “fail-safe” options? are you referring to the december midterms that make up a small percentage of your mark but give you feedback on how youre doing? 

Western student here. Some schools do "fail-safe" exams meaning that December exams only count if they were at least as good as your April exam grades. Western does not; they are factored into your final grade regardless of how you did, but it acts similar to a fail-safe because December exams are weighted so low compared to final exams. Realistically, nearly all of the time, your final exam will determine your final grade in the course.

The advantage of having fail-safe or low weighted exams is that you get a trial run with feedback on how to improve. You've never written a law school exam (it's quite different than exams in undergrad), so you'll get a kick at the can before the real deal. Also, every professor is different in their expectations, and this can shed light on different professors' preferences. If you use this feedback properly, you'll be able to improve your grades come finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi everyone, 

with the April 1 deadline coming up next week, I've decided to pick UofT. the only reason clear reason I have at this point is that it best suits my career ambitions. the fact of the matter is that there's no real way to know which school ill best fit into. I've thought hard about whats best for me personally, and I've decided to cross my fingers and hope that the law community is better than UG (and if 1L courses are online, that might make this whole consideration moot). based on the responses for this thread, I think I can be optimistic about this. I will also likely do the jd/ma econ, but if it messes up my opportunity to go on exchange (something I've always wanted to do but never done), ill try and force my way out of the MA. 

Im grateful to everyone who has chimed in with something helpful on this thread and the number of people who have messaged me privately. I didn't anticipate this decision being so tough seeing as UofT was my first choice from the moment started this whole process and not strongly considering western until around the time I made this thread. I realize my choice may come across as anti-climactic considering everything I've said, and Im open to criticism/roasting if you feel like im wimping out in any way

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/4/2020 at 12:09 PM, lolnope said:

>These two schools almost do as well as each other in that respect

I disagree. The 2L recruitment is 50%+ for UofT, ~30% for Western, and ~10% Ottawa for the sake of comparison. Then also consider the percentage of students going to New York, which I've seen as almost exclusively UofT and McGill, unless you're a JD/MBA student.

Can you share the link/source for those stats?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...