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MissRune363

Does Queens really only look at B2? Chances? (3.1, 3.75, 160)

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Concerned about my chances for next cycle because of a low cGPA but here are my stats:

3.1 cGPA

3.75 L2/B2

160 LSAT

Should I aim for a higher LSAT since I feel like I am really borderline?

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"Do they really..." questions are tricky. On the one hand, I would say there's no reason to doubt them when they say what they evaluate - and with your stats, just under the median for each value, you would have a good shot even without improving that LSAT.

On the other hand, I share the deep suspicion of "but won't they also look at those bad years, quietly, secretly?" And it's hard to feel absolutely 100% sure that they won't, even though we've no real reason to doubt them!

In my case, it's "Will they really not look at the F's in my grad school marks?" So far so good, though, except for that pesky U of A! ;)

Whatever happens, all the best next cycle. 

-GM

P.S. If you're motivated,  you still have almost two weeks to apply to U of S, which is also a B2 school and which doesn't require reference letters in the general category!

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14 hours ago, GrumpyMountie said:

"Do they really..." questions are tricky. On the one hand, I would say there's no reason to doubt them when they say what they evaluate - and with your stats, just under the median for each value, you would have a good shot even without improving that LSAT.

On the other hand, I share the deep suspicion of "but won't they also look at those bad years, quietly, secretly?" And it's hard to feel absolutely 100% sure that they won't, even though we've no real reason to doubt them!

In my case, it's "Will they really not look at the F's in my grad school marks?" So far so good, though, except for that pesky U of A! ;)

Whatever happens, all the best next cycle. 

-GM

P.S. If you're motivated,  you still have almost two weeks to apply to U of S, which is also a B2 school and which doesn't require reference letters in the general category!

 If there are one spot left and who would you pick? Assume LOR and EC etc are about the same..

A. 160  only score   3.75 B2 and 3.5 cGPA

B. 160 only score   3.75 B2,  and 3.3 cGPA

I had 3.47 cGPA, 3.74 B2 161 highest and was wait listed. (2012) My average score was 156.3

cGPA most likely a  factor. My own observation ONLY. 

cGPA above 3.6 with B2 3.65 and 160 may be more competitive than A or B above.

There may be many other factors admission comm looked at that could affect your chances. 

e.g. Averaged LSAT - Applicant' file  with 160 (only score) will be read ahead of 160 highest score (157 average score) That was what happened to my application. 

Other categories?  What if B above is  Access category or Indigenous Category ?

The stats for applicant pool is slightly different each cycle. School like Queens should have no problem to fill up the top 60% to 75% .  It is not easy to predict the chance of Borderline applicants (like myself) and other categories.

There may be over 100 applicants  that are borderline and other categories fighting the remaining 25% to 40% spots.      

  Do you still think B2 is the actually just  B2?

As a matter fact, I think cGPA is always a factor.

 

Edited by Luckycharm
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I believe that L2 or B2 schools that look at your cGPA want to do so to find out the trend of your mark. It’s not as as simple as just comparing whose cGPA is higher. it wouldn’t make sense to choose a person who has a downward trend even though he/she has a higher cGPA in any case. 

In my opinion I feel like it depends on the trend of your GPA. For ex if your B2 is your L2 that’s great. If your B2 is your first two years that’s not so great. Also scores are just one part of the application. Although people kept on emphasizing on scores your PS, ECs and letter do matter.

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I remember that Queens used to order files by cGPA (not sure if it is changed to B2 now) and Average LSAT score although they admit applicants by their B2 and highest LSAT score.
If so by the time they reach a low cGPA or/and low average LSAT score applicant's file the class may be full already even the applicant has competitive B2 and LSAT.
In this situation the best result for that applicant is to be wait-listed.

Edited by NeverGiveUp

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1 hour ago, NeverGiveUp said:

I remember that Queens used to order files by cGPA (not sure if it is changed to B2 now) and Average LSAT score although they admit applicants by their B2 and highest LSAT score.
If so by the time they reach a low cGPA or/and low average LSAT score applicant's file the class may be full already even the applicant has competitive B2 and LSAT.
In this situation the best result for that applicant is to be wait-listed.

Are they still doing that? Would it make sense to organize by cGPA while looking at the best 2 only? Because it is pretty easy to have a software algorithm that just sort the candidates based on best 2 or last 2. I would be shocked if they are hand sorting based on cGPA first. Maybe that’s why queens is taking so long after switching to B2 because they actually make sure they are looking at candidates who have high B2. 

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50 minutes ago, lawlawlaw777 said:

Are they still doing that? Would it make sense to organize by cGPA while looking at the best 2 only? Because it is pretty easy to have a software algorithm that just sort the candidates based on best 2 or last 2. I would be shocked if they are hand sorting based on cGPA first. Maybe that’s why queens is taking so long after switching to B2 because they actually make sure they are looking at candidates who have high B2. 

Well, if someone has a high CGPA, they would very likely have a high B2 as well, right? 

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23 minutes ago, yayawow said:

Well, if someone has a high CGPA, they would very likely have a high B2 as well, right? 

Bingo

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1 hour ago, yayawow said:

Well, if someone has a high CGPA, they would very likely have a high B2 as well, right? 

Yea you are right about the general trend. But still, that is based on an assumption according to the general trend that ppl who have high cGPA would also have higher L2. So it’s not an ideal method of approaching since it doesn’t capture the highest B2/L2 students 100%. 

Having an algorithm that directly sort out the highest B2 or L2 is a better method because that ensures that they capture the highest B2/L2 directly with zero sample being left out. Basically, you would have zero students who have low cGPA and high L2/B2 being left out, which according to Queen’s selection criteria, is a suitable way of sorting. 
But with regards to OP’s question, I would say that a LSAT <170 can always be retaken to improve your chance to get into law school, but when a school say they use the L2/B2, they really mean it. It wouldn’t be fair for Queens to say they look at B2 while secretly giving disadvantage to ppl who have lower cGPA. You have to trust what they say online. Review your application closely, perhaps there are still some space for improvement, could be the lsat score but could also be your PS or ECs. Good luck! 

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Thanks for the responses, I guess I feel somewhat better since I have a significant upwards trend with my first semester of university being a 0.7 (due to various factors) and with my most recent semester being a 3.9, so hopefully the admissions committee will see that. I just need to figure out if it is worth it to come back for another year to raise my cGPA if I am only applying to L2/B2 schools (3.75). 

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I just called the Admissions Office because I'm also anxious about this fact and am in the same boat (cGPA: 3.17, B2/L2: 3.93). The office rep told me that they MOSTLY look at best 2 years and only look at cgpa if your B2 info isn't available. 

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42 minutes ago, eeeeeek said:

I just called the Admissions Office because I'm also anxious about this fact and am in the same boat (cGPA: 3.17, B2/L2: 3.93). The office rep told me that they MOSTLY look at best 2 years and only look at cgpa if your B2 info isn't available. 

Just to add confirmation. I emailed them and they told me the same thing. Unless you don’t have a full course load they would be looking at B2. So don’t stress on the cGPA, stress on the B2. 

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Just to keep this thread needlessly going with another angle, that most likely no one can answer: I wonder if the same criteria (I.e. primarily B2 and LSAT) are used to determine entrance scholarships?

Reason I ask is that my B2 is a very great deal better than my cGPA (3.93 vs 3.73). If awards are determined using the same standards as Admissions, then I stand a better shot of getting one at Queen's (because of B2) than I do at, say, Ottawa, even though Ottawa is 'easier' to get into. 

Not that I've been accepted to either yet! ;)

-GM

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wait sorry if this isn't relevant but Queen's averages LSAT scores now??? I thought they only looked at the highest...

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15 minutes ago, companyonion said:

wait sorry if this isn't relevant but Queen's averages LSAT scores now??? I thought they only looked at the highest...

Queens took the highest score

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On 1/20/2020 at 11:17 AM, GrumpyMountie said:

Just to keep this thread needlessly going with another angle, that most likely no one can answer: I wonder if the same criteria (I.e. primarily B2 and LSAT) are used to determine entrance scholarships?

Reason I ask is that my B2 is a very great deal better than my cGPA (3.93 vs 3.73). If awards are determined using the same standards as Admissions, then I stand a better shot of getting one at Queen's (because of B2) than I do at, say, Ottawa, even though Ottawa is 'easier' to get into. 

Not that I've been accepted to either yet! ;)

-GM

I might be able to shed some light on this. 

I had a meeting with the Queen’s Admissions Coordinator in person last year when I swung by on a road trip, and I brought up the topic of scholarships. It seems that it is based on a combination of grades (cGPA for sure and potentially B2, see below) and LSAT. This was echoed when I spoke to admissions at Western as well. So it seems that it is approached similarly to admissions, but without consideration of ECs/PS. 

For reference, my B2 is significantly higher than my cGPA (which is 3.62) and I was still basically told that I would be competitive for scholarships. Though my cGPA is under their median, that’s in comparison to a median for B2 rather than for cGPA. So make of that what you will.

One last thing - Queen’s said that they don’t offer substantially “high” scholarships relative to some other schools (Western was mentioned specifically for comparison). Not sure if this can be verified by anyone else and their experiences, but that’s what I was told. 

Edited by LegaIBeagIe
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