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Law School vs MBA

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7 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Idk Matthews is very inconsistent. Can go from being a scoring machine 1 week to completely invisible the next. 

He is inconsistent but I believe he leads the league in even strength goals since entering the league. He is also 2nd or 3rd in even strength goals this year (he is ahead of pasta). Power plays overinflate the value of the pastas and mcdavids out there (mcdavid has 6 or 7 more even strength points than matthews)

get our power play rolling and matthews is a top 3 player in the league! 

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1 hour ago, Lawstudent97 said:

I can assure you that is not true. If you sound like an asshole on your application you won’t get in.

Source: I sounded like an asshole on my applications last year, didn’t get into to western or osgoode with gpa and LSAT above the medians. 

How did you sound like an asshole on your application? 

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Just now, TimhortonsCup said:

How did you sound like an asshole on your application? 

I was really busy around application time and had less than a week to write personal statements. I had midterms, papers due, studying for the lsat, and was in a bad place mentally. 

I essentially wrote about how I was so smart I didn’t try in undergrad and still did very well and would surely be at the top of my class one I found something I cared about (aka the law). I think I said something along the lines of my life goal being to dominate intellectually at something and I thought that something was the law. 
 

I would have straight up rejected me if I were them (I was waitlisted). It was probably the most humbling experience of my life. I am no longer an asshole and got into UBC and western so far this cycle :) 

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1 minute ago, Lawstudent97 said:

I was really busy around application time and had less than a week to write personal statements. I had midterms, papers due, studying for the lsat, and was in a bad place mentally. 

I essentially wrote about how I was so smart I didn’t try in undergrad and still did very well and would surely be at the top of my class one I found something I cared about (aka the law). I think I said something along the lines of my life goal being to dominate intellectually at something and I thought that something was the law. 
 

I would have straight up rejected me if I were them (I was waitlisted). It was probably the most humbling experience of my life. I am no longer an asshole and got into UBC and western so far this cycle :) 

Damn, you got in now though so it's all good, congrats! 

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1 hour ago, Lawstudent97 said:

I can assure you that is not true. If you sound like an asshole on your application you won’t get in.

Source: I sounded like an asshole on my applications last year, didn’t get into to western or osgoode with gpa and LSAT above the medians. 

 what if you're a jackass but an amazing lawyer 

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Personally, I'd say you can do both. Some schools, like the U of A, offer a joint MBA/JD program, which could be perfect for you. 

Also, you can always do one, and then the other... There  are a lot of non-content related factors you should consider though. For example, MBA programs tend to have a higher average age of student vs Law School, and offer a lot more flexibility in terms of program structure and courses, whereas law school is pretty rigid (at least my school is). I know a few lawyers who did MBAs part time after law school, so that's definitely an option, but leaving a job to go to law school probably isn't very realistic.

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On 12/17/2019 at 8:00 PM, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Stellar undergrad marks and have contributed to creating about half a dozen peer reviewed articles over the course of my degree. Need to decide if i should start studying for the GMAT/GRE or LSAT soon. Have heard the arguments for/against business now I would like the same from any of you here on law.  

Someone advised me to just write both exams and do a joint degree but I want to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP. Other option would be to write both exams, apply to both programs separately and then just attend whichever program at the best school. For example if I get into Queens Law and UofT's MBA than it'd be a no contest to go with UofT.

 

Are you sure you did peer review before? Because you are getting your stats wrong, the percentages of ppl being hired on Bay Street does NOT say anything if you did not take into consideration of the percentages of ppl applied to Bay Street jobs. And as we know, we have no data showing this calculation with accurate numbers. 
 

 

On 12/17/2019 at 9:47 PM, albertabean said:

OP you’re being very rude. People on this forum don’t owe you advice, and yet you’re being very hostile. In your words “stop bitching” and make your own life decisions. 


I agree with many posts saying that you are having a hostile attitude. You forget that money comes with ability, NOT degrees. This is a fundamental concept that has been mentioned and explained again and again. 

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On 12/17/2019 at 8:00 PM, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Need to decide if i should start studying for the GMAT/GRE or LSAT soon. Have heard the arguments for/against business now I would like the same from any of you here on law.  

Someone advised me to just write both exams and do a joint degree but I want to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP. Other option would be to write both exams, apply to both programs separately and then just attend whichever program at the best school. For example if I get into Queens Law and UofT's MBA than it'd be a no contest to go with UofT.

I've been through the JD/MBA program and am now working on Bay Street, I may be able to provide you with the insight you're looking for but I have a few questions for you first: 

1. How long have you graduated from undergrad? Are you working right now? MBAs require minimum work year experiences in your application so if you don't meet that, chances are you'd only get into law school anyways if you apply separately to both.

2. When you say you want to "make $$$ ASAP", is that out of necessity or is it an it-would-be-nice-to-have statement? Is $$$ the ultimate goal in your career? Or do you just want to make good $$$ in the process of building a career? There's nothing wrong in saying yes to the former option, but it would be nice to know where you actually stand for me to give you a candid response.

3. Why have you considered pursuing a career in law? What about it intrigues you? 

4. What areas of business are you interested in? Is it just in finance? 

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Sorry,  l’m late to the game but I had to answer.

MBA’s are still and will always provide the best return on investment when you have work experience. Being a student and publishing papers is different from doing work. I’ve done both.

In addition business lessons and jargon make more sense when you have the experience. I know many MBAs that went right out of undergrad and still had to start at a lower level because while you might have the “knowledge” you’re unable to apply it in anyway that helps the business because you haven’t worked in and industry/field yet.

If you want an MBA, work for a year or two in a role that would benefit from an MBA (niche areas in Finance, Operations, consulting..) and then get the MBA with 2-3 years under your belt but ideally 5-6. 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/18/2019 at 11:02 AM, levin said:

I don't really see a value in these combined degrees tbh. UofT, for instance, has JD/MBA, JD/MA econ, JD/MSW etc.. you could easily get a job in econ/finance with just a master in econ. or you go work at a law firm with a JD. why both? Not to mention the added stress of having to deal with law school + something else..  maybe it pays off in the long run? i don't know. 

Speaking from personal experience, it is actually a great option financially speaking. I'll exclude the JD\MBA from this discussion though.

If you take the JD\MA Econ for example, it takes the same amount of time to complete as a JD. However, the MA is free. You don't pay anything extra for it. You pay the regular UofT JD tuition like everyone else. 

But what you do get access to is TA opportunities. At UofT, you can easily rack up $15k in TA work during the school year (once you get used to marking, it's really not a lot of work). It really helps pay down your debt. 

You get credit for your law degree and MA when you do certain courses. And the extra work that you do is just taking two 5-course semesters whereas JDs take only 4. 

1L is exclusively law courses like every other JD. That's what gets you hired for the 2L recruit anyways. 

To add it all up, you get a free graduate degree and $45k of funding over 3 years. You can't ask for a better deal than that.

The combined program allowed me to graduate debt free despite no substantial financial support.

JD\MBAs are an extra year, much more money and I don't see the same benefit financially speaking.

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On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 AM, ItsJasper said:

I've been through the JD/MBA program and am now working on Bay Street, I may be able to provide you with the insight you're looking for but I have a few questions for you first: 

1. How long have you graduated from undergrad? Are you working right now? MBAs require minimum work year experiences in your application so if you don't meet that, chances are you'd only get into law school anyways if you apply separately to both.

2. When you say you want to "make $$$ ASAP", is that out of necessity or is it an it-would-be-nice-to-have statement? Is $$$ the ultimate goal in your career? Or do you just want to make good $$$ in the process of building a career? There's nothing wrong in saying yes to the former option, but it would be nice to know where you actually stand for me to give you a candid response.

3. Why have you considered pursuing a career in law? What about it intrigues you? 

4. What areas of business are you interested in? Is it just in finance? 

1. I've been out of school for 2 year working in a mid level position at a large national bank

2. Both technically, just paid off my student debt and am providing for myself however I do have someone in my family that help out now and then

3. Finance is a rat race. The markets are out of control, there is no schedule. With law you take the clients, you make the arguments, and the facts are what they are. Being the driver's seat instead of having to respond to daily/weekly fluctuations in the market are a huge selling point. 

4. Interests include; finance, logistics, and marketing 

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On 1/15/2020 at 4:23 PM, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

3. Finance is a rat race. The markets are out of control, there is no schedule. With law you take the clients, you make the arguments, and the facts are what they are. Being the driver's seat instead of having to respond to daily/weekly fluctuations in the market are a huge selling point. 

As a lawyer (at least as a corporate lawyer on Bay), you don't take the driver's seat either because you're constantly responding to the needs of clients. 

Let's use a public company as an example - you know they'll need to call an annual meeting once a year so you schedule in some time to review their MIC, then you put in your calendar that you'll need to take some time out to review their MD&A every quarter - that's consistent work, you know when things are coming down the pipeline, easy.

That same client can also email you to tell you that they want to do an offering because the market looks great or they're interested in buying a small private co or they want to do a debt financing because interests are at an all time low - you might think, okay, you can kind of anticipate when those things could happen if you stay on top of the market and industry trends.

Then that same client can email you to tell you that they're now a target of a takeover bid or their institutional shareholders are calling a meeting to elect new directors or they're being investigated by the securities commission - even the client can't control this. 

Keep in mind also that some clients are not always on the ball or they think they can handle certain things in-house until they realize they can't so 2 days before some sort of deadline, they'll come to you and ask for you to handle it ASAP. To top it all off, you don't only have this 1 client, you have multiple clients who have fluctuating needs.     

There may be some areas in law where you have more control over your schedule than others but what I'm getting at is this - you won't know when your clients will email you with questions or issues. Some people thrive on that uncertainty (and some have made peace with themselves that there are times where your schedule is "just do what needs to get done").

Knowing this then, are you still interested in the practice of law? Is there another selling point which attracts you to pursuing a career in law?

 

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On 12/17/2019 at 8:00 PM, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Stellar undergrad marks and have contributed to creating about half a dozen peer reviewed articles over the course of my degree. Need to decide if i should start studying for the GMAT/GRE or LSAT soon. Have heard the arguments for/against business now I would like the same from any of you here on law.  

Someone advised me to just write both exams and do a joint degree but I want to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP. Other option would be to write both exams, apply to both programs separately and then just attend whichever program at the best school. For example if I get into Queens Law and UofT's MBA than it'd be a no contest to go with UofT.

 

First thing you should know is that the legal field takes great offence to cavalier use of punctuation :P

I think you would make good lawyer based on your astrological sign. But maybe also good businesswoman? Only time will tell.

I think the joint degree would make sense for you actually. After one year you can drop the half you like less and if you accelerate for years two and three then you won't miss a beat.

And as just a suggestion, actually instead of opting for the higher school, why not opt for the exam where you get the higher percentile?  Then your strengths will be more optimally aligned with your $$$ ASAP.

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@ItsJasper I never said law isn't demanding, but that doesn't change the fact that you choose your clients. If a client regularly calls 2 days before some big deadline and wants you to solve his problem that says more about the firm's process of selecting clients than it does about the industry. 

Assuming you having the ability to solve the issue you can either:

a) Charge him a Brinks truck worth of Benjamin's to do it because he won't have time to go anywhere else

b) Tell him to fuck right off because the money he's paying isn't worth the stress

Also in law the money make is guaranteed because whether you win or lose a case or whatever the client still has to pay you for the work you did. Finance on the flip side requires you to work with much more information and there's no guarantee the transaction you entered will lead to a pay day. Worse if you short a stock that everyone else starts to buy you're in the red.

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1 hour ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

@ItsJasper I never said law isn't demanding, but that doesn't change the fact that you choose your clients. If a client regularly calls 2 days before some big deadline and wants you to solve his problem that says more about the firm's process of selecting clients than it does about the industry. 

Assuming you having the ability to solve the issue you can either:

a) Charge him a Brinks truck worth of Benjamin's to do it because he won't have time to go anywhere else

b) Tell him to fuck right off because the money he's paying isn't worth the stress

Also in law the money make is guaranteed because whether you win or lose a case or whatever the client still has to pay you for the work you did. Finance on the flip side requires you to work with much more information and there's no guarantee the transaction you entered will lead to a pay day. Worse if you short a stock that everyone else starts to buy you're in the red.

a non-lawyer telling a lawyer how being a lawyer works. very cute 

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12 minutes ago, mistertubby said:

a non-lawyer telling a lawyer how being a lawyer works. very cute 

@mistertubby I never said that this is how it works. That's how I would do business but if our happy being on call for someone 24/7 without being properly compensated good for you I guess. 

Also it goes without saying that "a brinks truck worth of benjamins" was obviously an exaggertaion.  

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As a transactional lawyer, I rarely feel like I'm in the driver's seat, and most of my work schedule depends on when the client wants certain things. I can organize my life and push back to a certain extent, but when you're needed, you're needed, regardless of whether it fucks up your schedule or not.

Edited by hitman9172
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39 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

@mistertubby I never said that this is how it works. That's how I would do business but if our happy being on call for someone 24/7 without being properly compensated good for you I guess. 

Also it goes without saying that "a brinks truck worth of benjamins" was obviously an exaggertaion.  

dropping a client as a lawyer is not done lightly, law society's have very specific rules on how and when it can be done, and even then if its a big client that is ending over a bad relationship, there's a good chance they turn around and take a run at you. You have obligations to client's that you cannot step away from, no matter how much of a annoyance they are. Plus if you are a junior lawyer, which is were we all start, and its a partner's client, you never get to make that decision and your feelings on the matter probably won't be taken into account.

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11 minutes ago, lawstudent20202020 said:

dropping a client as a lawyer is not done lightly, law society's have very specific rules on how and when it can be done, and even then if its a big client that is ending over a bad relationship, there's a good chance they turn around and take a run at you. You have obligations to client's that you cannot step away from, no matter how much of a annoyance they are. Plus if you are a junior lawyer, which is were we all start, and its a partner's client, you never get to make that decision and your feelings on the matter probably won't be taken into account.

 

Edited by How2LawSchoolCanada

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