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Law School vs MBA

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19 minutes ago, PerisoreusCanadensis said:

Hasn't the MBA's utility declined in recent years? At least that's what I've heard from friends and acquaintances in senior finance sector roles... They've told me that they will often hire non-MBAs with (even slightly) more experience over less experienced MBA grads.

That said, I suppose you need to get your foot in the door somehow. However, an MBA has historically been a mid-career endeavour (or at least with some professional work experience in hand)...

Note: Obviously this is anecdotal. I don't profess to have considerable knowledge in this area. Just passing along what I've heard.

Also anecdotal but I have been told that MBAs are not worth the paper thegcafe printed on without prior experience. I know someone who's fairly high up at a major financial institution and they said that there's essentially a two MBA tracks one for those without experience and one for those that do. The ones with experience had significantly better career prospects

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11 hours ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

If you're saying that there are easier ways to make money you are inferring a comparison to other professions. I shouldn't have to explain this. 

Furthermore, I don't disagree that law is a hard profession but show me an easy profession where you make 6 figures year.

The oldest profession 

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Sounds like you've not gotten a job through the undergrad ibanking recruit for one reason or another. I am not trying to be mean when I say that I suggest improving your maturity a bit before applying to an MBA at a top school -- including the USA if you have the financial resources to do so, and putting most of your efforts towards the finance angle, if you have the chops for it.  

I wouldn't recommend law unless your mindset towards it changes a lot. 

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2 minutes ago, Amorfati1 said:

Do a JD/MBA combined degree.

I don't really see a value in these combined degrees tbh. UofT, for instance, has JD/MBA, JD/MA econ, JD/MSW etc.. you could easily get a job in econ/finance with just a master in econ. or you go work at a law firm with a JD. why both? Not to mention the added stress of having to deal with law school + something else..  maybe it pays off in the long run? i don't know. 

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I think it's precisely for people facing the kind of career dilemma that OP is facing. I've even seen people do JD/MA Geology :)

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1 minute ago, levin said:

I don't really see a value in these combined degrees tbh. UofT, for instance, has JD/MBA, JD/MA econ, JD/MSW etc.. you could easily get a job in econ/finance with just a master in econ. or you go work at a law firm with a JD. why both? Not to mention the added stress of having to deal with law school + something else..  maybe it pays off in the long run? i don't know. 

I think you're overestimating the added stress of "having to deal with law school + something else". I'm applying to the u of t jd/ma econ. the program is still three years long, and the first year (most important) is spent exclusively taking law classes. at the end of the day, if being a corporate law slave isn't too much to my liking, I have a graduate degree to fall back on. 

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3 hours ago, mistertubby said:

I think you're overestimating the added stress of "having to deal with law school + something else". I'm applying to the u of t jd/ma econ. 

I mean, it would be nice to hear from someone who’s actually done it but ok

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@lawstudent20202020 I am sorry for what I wrote earlier.

For those asking why I am currently not making 90-100k with my undergrad degree I do not have a Bcom. I have a BA in history, econ, and a handful of business courses. I currently work at large Canadian bank and make good money, but 100k law/MBA salary would still be a significant raise. 

If anyone works in corporate law or went through the hiring process recently that is what I would like to hear about.  

Edited by How2LawSchoolCanada

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55 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

@lawstudent20202020 I am sorry for what I wrote earlier.

For those asking why I am currently not making 90-100k with my undergrad degree I do not have a Bcom. I have a BA in history, econ, and a handful of business courses. I currently work at large Canadian bank and make good money, but 100k law/MBA salary would still be a significant raise. 

If anyone works in corporate law or went through the hiring process recently that is what I would like to hear about.  

Are you sure you want to hear about that or would just want them to know how smart you think you are? 

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24 minutes ago, OnlyResident said:

Are you sure you want to hear about that or would just want them to know how smart you think you are? 

1. Yes I actually want to know what people in corporate think. I view the law, and any profession, as a source of income that will allow me to live the lifestyle I want. If you get something else out of it good for you. 

2. How smart I think I think I am is irrelevant. The grades I got, grants I worked on, and distinction I earned upon graduation are the only things will matter when it comes to admissions.

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33 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

1. Yes I actually want to know what people in corporate think. I view the law, and any profession, as a source of income that will allow me to live the lifestyle I want. If you get something else out of it good for you. 

2. How smart I think I think I am is irrelevant. The grades I got, grants I worked on, and distinction I earned upon graduation are the only things will matter when it comes to admissions.

I can assure you that is not true. If you sound like an asshole on your application you won’t get in.

Source: I sounded like an asshole on my applications last year, didn’t get into to western or osgoode with gpa and LSAT above the medians. 

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36 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

1. Yes I actually want to know what people in corporate think. I view the law, and any profession, as a source of income that will allow me to live the lifestyle I want. If you get something else out of it good for you. 

2. How smart I think I think I am is irrelevant. The grades I got, grants I worked on, and distinction I earned upon graduation are the only things will matter when it comes to admissions.

https://www.zsa.ca/salary-guide/

This is a good starting point. Something to keep in mind is the attrition rate in Biglaw. Roughly 60-75% of Associates leave Bay Street within the first 5 years of their practice - and they take a pay cut doing so. Sometimes they leave on their own; in many cases they are let go by the firms themselves. People here are not kidding when they say you can make easier money elsewhere. I know people in their low-mid 20s in the business and technology fields making lawyer salaries. Heck, I know people in sales and real estate making lawyer salaries who do not have degrees at all.

You're putting a lot on chance here - 3 years of law school + 1 year articling/LPP for the off chance that you land at a Biglaw firm and make 100-130k starting. Even if you were to go to U of T law, there is no guarantee that you will land at one of these firms, as roughly 40-50% of U of T's class land Biglaw every year. This is why folks here are telling you not to pursue law if you are only doing it for the money. The real practice of law is not like Suits. There are easier ways to make 100-200k than by becoming a lawyer. Realistically, you can expect anywhere from 60-120k starting and it is a slow crawl upwards from there for most people. If you are fine with this, then go to law school. But you can come out of an MBA program, land an IB, high-finance, private equity, or management consulting job and make 150k+bonus. As a lawyer, this may take you 5-10+ years to reach, if ever depending on whether you are actually able to land a position that will get you there.

So you can see why people here are telling you to pursue business over law, right?

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This is a drive-by public service announcement, but relevant:

@OP - There are actually a lot of people on this site who are practicing lawyers, either in business-related areas of law or otherwise, and who really know what they are talking about. On a quick skim, several replies in this discussion come from practicing lawyers. There aren't the executives of your undergraduate pre-law club who think they know stuff, because a lawyer gave them a card once and because the previous executives of the pre-law club (who are still "applying" to law school, long after graduation) told them last year. These are practicing lawyers who know what they hell they are talking about. Stop talking and listen to them.

@Everyone else - People who come here and immediately doubt the truth of what they hear are annoying as hell, but remember they don't actually know who's here. It's not like we hang a sign out that says "yes, we call this lawstudents.ca but 47% of all posts are from practicing lawyers." Applying the same assumptions here that safely apply to most of the Internet, it's reasonable to assume there would be a far higher incidence of bullshit here than is, in fact, the case. Try to remember that people who just arrived here don't know that.

Discussions like this annoy the hell out of everyone. I was initially reading just for the trainwreck. But sometimes the people already here help contribute to the trainwreck, by not helping newbies get oriented. No one likes the guy who showed up asking questions but quickly turns into the guy who already had all the answers and just wants to correct the people who tried to help him. But if you confuse this place with most of the pre-law bullshit out there, that could have been the appropriate response. So maybe a bit of cooling off all around is appropriate.

Take care everyone.

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On 12/17/2019 at 8:58 PM, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

so stop bitching about how hard being lawyer is.

Look here. I have no hobbies, no girlfriend, no children, and since Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner got overpaid by at least a million or so each, the Leafs don't have a viable back goalie, meaning I no longer follow a single, successful professional sports franchise. 

You can't take away bitching about being a lawyer. I won't let you. 

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11 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

Look here. I have no hobbies, no girlfriend, no children, and since Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner got overpaid by at least a million or so each, the Leafs don't have a viable back goalie, meaning I no longer follow a single, successful professional sports franchise. 

You can't take away bitching about being a lawyer. I won't let you. 

It's your fault for being a fan of the Maple Laughs :P, although my team is currently out tanking the sens which is an embarrassment in it of itself. 

With regards to the no girlfriend issue...if your in the GTA hmu your sexy hat does things to me.

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14 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

Look here. I have no hobbies, no girlfriend, no children, and since Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner got overpaid by at least a million or so each, the Leafs don't have a viable back goalie, meaning I no longer follow a single, successful professional sports franchise. 

You can't take away bitching about being a lawyer. I won't let you. 

Only Marner was overpaid;) 

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