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How2LawSchoolCanada

Law School vs MBA

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Stellar undergrad marks and have contributed to creating about half a dozen peer reviewed articles over the course of my degree. Need to decide if i should start studying for the GMAT/GRE or LSAT soon. Have heard the arguments for/against business now I would like the same from any of you here on law.  

Someone advised me to just write both exams and do a joint degree but I want to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP. Other option would be to write both exams, apply to both programs separately and then just attend whichever program at the best school. For example if I get into Queens Law and UofT's MBA than it'd be a no contest to go with UofT.

 

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You're talking a out two completely different careers here. Figure out what profession you want first then pursue that. If you just want to make money I would suggest that you don't pursue law. 

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2 minutes ago, lawstudent20202020 said:

You're talking a out two completely different careers here. Figure out what profession you want first then pursue that. If you just want to make money I would suggest that you don't pursue law. 

Ok but why? Lawyers make good money and the market for legal is arguably better than every other business specialty than finance and econ. 

The whole reason why I made this post was so that I could get a better idea of what career to pursue by hopefully talking to lawyers/law students. Like I said I was very good student in university who did well in both business courses and arts courses so I'm dealing with a deficit of choice problem. 

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2 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Ok but why? Lawyers make good money and the market for legal is arguably better than every other business specialty than finance and econ. 

How true is this statement?

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8 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Ok but why? Lawyers make good money and the market for legal is arguably better than every other business specialty than finance and econ. 

Lawyers can make good money but it is no way guaranteed that you will get one of those jobs. The average lawyer makes way less than people think. It's also just a hard job with a high burnout rate, and the more you get paid the harder it is. There are easier ways to make more money 

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9 minutes ago, lawstudent20202020 said:

Lawyers can make good money but it is no way guaranteed that you will get one of those jobs. The average lawyer makes way less than people think. It's also just a hard job with a high burnout rate, and the more you get paid the harder it is. There are easier ways to make more money 

Look at the burnout rates of people in finance who work 60-80 hour weeks trying to beat the market. Also no profession ever has any guaranteed high paying job with little effort. All things considered lawyers have it pretty good compared to the average person working in finance: 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=average+finance+salary+canada&rlz=1C1GCEU_enCA828CA828&oq=avergae+finana&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.8691j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.ca/search?q=average+lawyer+salary+canada&rlz=1C1GCEU_enCA828CA828&oq=average+lawyer+sals&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.5763j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You also forgot to mention that lawyers are 'protected' because the barrier to entry into law school is much higher than a BCom or MBA program. By restricting the supply of lawyers the price for legal work goes up (at everyone else's expense I might add) and on top of that you face much less competition to secure clients so stop bitching about how hard being lawyer is.

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Completely agree with @lawstudent20202020 .

OP, this isn't a negative in any way but you don't sound like you're interested in law as much as you are interested in making good "$$$".

For that, I'd say go with the MBA. It's shorter, 2 years vs 3 + articling, and income potential will be roughly comparable, and both degrees probably cost about the same depending on where you go. Law can be tedious and tiresome if you just want the bucks, whereas an MBA can get you very connected to the making of the bucks.

Side bar, it's a weird thing to say a UofT MBA is objectively better than a Queen's law degree as both will arguably get you exactly where you want to go no questions asked. 

But back to the why of it. Personally, I think of law as a profession that happens to make a fair bit of money at the top end, but money isn't the point of the thing. Whereas, literally the point of a business or a bank is to make as much money as possible. So philosophically, your question to me is a bit like asking whether you should become a doctor because you want to make money. I'd say go be an awesome banker instead.

Edited by TheAEGIS
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14 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

You also forgot to mention that lawyers are 'protected' because the barrier to entry into law school is much higher than a BCom or MBA program. By restricting the supply of lawyers the price for legal work goes up (at everyone else's expense I might add) and on top of that you face much less competition to secure clients so stop bitching about how hard being lawyer is.

Boy that turned into a personal attack quickly.

Alright so you asked for opinions and I gave you one. I wasnt comparing law to other professions, I was stating that it is a hard one.

If you think you know better than someone on this forum why are you asking for opinions here. 

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2 minutes ago, TheAEGIS said:

Side bar, it's a weird thing to say a UofT MBA is objectively better than a Queen's law degree as both will arguably get you exactly where you want to go no questions asked. 

But back to to the why of it, personally, I think of law as a profession that happens to make a fair bit of money, but money isn't the point of the thing. Whereas, literally the point of a business or a bank is to make money. So philosophically, your question to me is a bit like asking whether you should become a doctor because you want to make money. I'd say go be an awesome banker instead.

No UofT MBA grads have pretty damn near 100% chance at working in a top company in their field whereas a Queens JD gets you like a 30% chance of practicing on Bay Street. Not to mention that you can work in other countries with an MBA whereas only a handful of Canadian lawyers make it to the US and virtually none of them went to Queens.

Also you seem to forget that law firms are business and the point of the firm is to make money. The way they happen to do that is to offer legal services. Unless you're a politician who happens to make the laws (ironically you don't a need a law degree to occupy that position), the only other 'point of the law' is to defend/prosecute people which is a skill that you provide in exchange for money. 

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1 minute ago, lawstudent20202020 said:

Boy that turned into a personal attack quickly.

Alright so you asked for opinions and I gave you one. I wasnt comparing law to other professions, I was stating that it is a hard one.

If you think you know better than someone on this forum why are you asking for opinions here. 

If you're saying that there are easier ways to make money you are inferring a comparison to other professions. I shouldn't have to explain this. 

Furthermore, I don't disagree that law is a hard profession but show me an easy profession where you make 6 figures year.

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2 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

If you're saying that there are easier ways to make money you are inferring a comparison to other professions. I shouldn't have to explain this. 

Furthermore, I don't disagree that law is a hard profession but show me an easy profession where you make 6 figures year.

You are missing what I'm saying so I'm going to rephrase. 

If you want to be a lawyer, go to law school, for the right person it can be an incredibly rewarding career that will provide you with a decent standard of living.

If the only thing you get out of being a lawyer is a paycheck you will not get far in this industry. 

Personally I don't think you should ever make a career decision purely for the money. I tried that and worked a trade for a number of years and easily had an equal earning opportunity to being a lawyer but wanted to blow my brains out by the end. 

What I am suggesting you do is some research into what being a lawyer is really like. Email some local lawyers, if they have the time they will sit down with you over coffee and talk about the job. See if it's something you like. 

If you just want a good paycheck I strongly suggest you look elsewhere

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A degree alone doesn't make you rich - regardless of whether you have an MBA or a law degree. There is no golden ticket. Also the 100% stat rate for UofT MBAs is the most nonsense stat ever (even if its exaggerated) - no idea where you got that from. Anyways, becoming successful in law or MBA requires you to maneuver and climb the professional ladder after you graduate school - whether in a firm or corporate environment. That's why a lot of smart kids don't necessarily make partner, and why some kids who didn't graduate top of their class end up making partner. The world is so much more complicated than a golden ticket. I think at this stage, you really need to just ask yourself whether you would enjoy doing law. 

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OP you’re being very rude. People on this forum don’t owe you advice, and yet you’re being very hostile. In your words “stop bitching” and make your own life decisions. 

Edited by albertabean
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4 minutes ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

No UofT MBA grads have pretty damn near 100% chance at working in a top company in their field whereas a Queens JD gets you like a 30% chance of practicing on Bay Street. Not to mention that you can work in other countries with an MBA whereas only a handful of Canadian lawyers make it to the US and virtually none of them went to Queens.

Also you seem to forget that law firms are business and the point of the firm is to make money. The way they happen to do that is to offer legal services. Unless you're a politician who happens to make the laws (ironically you don't a need a law degree to occupy that position), the only other 'point of the law' is to defend/prosecute people which is a skill that you provide in exchange for money. 

Yes, markets are different for lawyers vs MBAs as there are way more employment opportunities for MBAs. Look, if this is about maximizing your chances of landing a top paying gig at a top firm/corporation in your field then your choice is even clearer, go get an MBA for all the reasons you've listed plus I believe that even UofT law grads land Bay Street gigs at a clip of about 50%, which is I dunno, 50% less than what Rotman grads apparently have going for them.

I see what you're saying about law firms, but my basic point is that if your priority is money then go do the degree that literally advertises itself by telling you how much money the average grad makes: file:///C:/Users/idudo/Downloads/Rotman-Employment-and-Salary-Report-2018.pdf

Think about it this way, success in law is not synonymous with being wealthy. I'd argue that being successful in business is exactly that.

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2 minutes ago, albertabean said:

OP you’re being very rude. People on this forum don’t owe you advice, and yet you’re being very hostile. In your words “stop bitching” and make your own life decisions. 

Also this.

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OP: the literal embodiment of every negative stereotype of lawyers ever. I say go to law school just as the oracle foretold! 

 

 

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4 hours ago, How2LawSchoolCanada said:

Stellar undergrad marks and have contributed to creating about half a dozen peer reviewed articles over the course of my degree. Need to decide if i should start studying for the GMAT/GRE or LSAT soon. Have heard the arguments for/against business now I would like the same from any of you here on law.  

Someone advised me to just write both exams and do a joint degree but I want to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP. Other option would be to write both exams, apply to both programs separately and then just attend whichever program at the best school. For example if I get into Queens Law and UofT's MBA than it'd be a no contest to go with UofT.

 

if you wanted to get out of school and make that $$$ ASAP then why didn't you just go into i-banking or consulting with your stellar grades straight out of undergrad and straight into 90-100k. if you had  a choice between mckinsey straight out of undergrad and a bay st law firm some 3 years after + TONS of debt, you'd choose the latter? for the love of law? 

 

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Hasn't the MBA's utility declined in recent years? At least that's what I've heard from friends and acquaintances in senior finance sector roles... They've told me that they will often hire non-MBAs with (even slightly) more experience over less experienced MBA grads.

That said, I suppose you need to get your foot in the door somehow. However, an MBA has historically been a mid-career endeavour (or at least with some professional work experience in hand)...

Note: Obviously this is anecdotal. I don't profess to have considerable knowledge in this area. Just passing along what I've heard.

Edited by PerisoreusCanadensis
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