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Post-OCI Job Search (Toronto)

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15 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

Seriously man? What a shitty thing to say to someone who is excited to start a new job. Not everybody has the same priorities or goals that you do. Living/working in a busy downtown core isn't everyone's ideal.

I actually wasn't initially working with the assumption that they got hired by that firm because I assumed no one here would give away the name of their firm.

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29 minutes ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I actually wasn't initially working with the assumption that they got hired by that firm because I assumed no one here would give away the name of their firm.

But why shit on that firm anyway?

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1 hour ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to work at a firm in Etobicoke.

Here in the real world, there are about a hundred more important qualities that come into consideration when choosing a job besides "is this firm a Seven Sister?" and "is this firm on Bay St?" I understand that this may be lost on insecure law students who use this type of condescension as a coping mechanism...

Some things people might value more: specialization in a niche practice area, a shorter commute to their family home, promotion of work-life balance, etc. The list goes on and on...

I don't even know why I'm bothering to write this because it seems so obvious to me but I'm biting. Is it hard to imagine that someone from Etobicoke may want to stay in Etobicoke? If you're planning on having a couple kids, you usually need a house. Most junior-level Bay St lawyers cannot afford a house in Downtown. Commuting is a strain on both your work and family life. Most people dislike commuting. Commuting from Etobicoke to Downtown toronto is particularly hell, if you've ever tried it. Why not just get started on your life ahead of time, rather than spending needless years downtown just because some law students think this is the way it is done?

I have another scenario for you: someone had a job and a life before law school in Etobicoke. They want to be able to bring their previous connections into their practice via business development. It makes sense to start your practice in a firm in Etobicoke, stay there, and use the network of people in your community. Or you know, outside of these niche examples, maybe you just clicked best with the lawyers in Etobicoke.

The vast majority of people lateral off of Bay St... you know this right? Probably upwards of 75% after 10 years... are gone... the fact that you're seriously sat here assuming that most people who start outside of Downtown want to lateral into a Bay St position if given the chance is seriously shortsighted and out of touch with reality. Maybe speak to some lawyers off of Bay St? I can think of a dozen I've met who wouldn't give up their positions for anything in the world.

I've been living downtown for 3 years now. I go to school downtown. I have taken a job downtown that I picture myself staying at for a really long time. But honestly, it is my love of the firm that is keeping me downtown. They have a satellite office in one of my favorite, less glamorous Canadian cities and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't jealous about all of the lawyers who get to build their practices there. People raised outside of Toronto don't have the same level of attachment to Downtown Toronto.

I'm just honestly really confused as to why any of this needs to be explained to a highly intelligent 2L. It seems like common sense and basic levels of emotional intelligence to me... like, you realize some people choose not to become Bay St corporate lawyers... just like how some people choose not to become lawyers at all?

Edited by wtamow
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I know people who work at Loopstra. It sounds like a great firm, and has a good reputation in a bunch of areas. 

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Why are you guys spending so much time on a stupid comment made by a guy who was so obsessed about the OCI process and getting a job through it that he asked a question along the lines of “will people notice if my tie isn’t silk?”, and other similar things.

You're probably not changing his mind, and everyone else knows it was a dumb thing to say.  Piling on doesn’t really do much. 

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3 minutes ago, Shankar said:

Why are you guys spending so much time on a stupid comment made by a guy who was so obsessed about the OCI process and getting a job through it that he asked a question along the lines of “will people notice if my tie isn’t silk?”, and other similar things.

You're probably not changing his mind, and everyone else knows it was a dumb thing to say.  Piling on doesn’t really do much. 

No, that was Newfoundland. 🤣

(And also, you'd probably be surprised at how many others I've heard espouse the same sentiments.)

Edited by wtamow
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1 hour ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I actually wasn't initially working with the assumption that they got hired by that firm because I assumed no one here would give away the name of their firm.

But your comments disparage anyone who chooses to work at that firm, anyone who works off Bay, and pretty much the population of Etobicoke.

I'm assuming you tried transferring to UofT after 1L? Because the exact same things could be said about choosing to go to school in North York.

Edit: Sorry for continuing to go off topic. Congratulations to anyone who got an offer, especially for having the endurance to go through another recruit so soon!

Edited by chaboywb
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2 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

But your comments disparage anyone who chooses to work at that firm, anyone who works off Bay, and pretty much the population of Etobicoke.

My comments were actually prompted by my experience taking transit to Etobicoke. If you don't drive it's a very tedious place to get to  by transit and it's also not a very walkable area. Its not somewhere I'd go unless I absolutely had to simply because you need a car to be able to move around there.

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32 minutes ago, wtamow said:

No, that was Newfoundland. 🤣

(And also, you'd probably be surprised at how many others I've heard espouse the same sentiments.)

Oh, my bad. That one was from our other interesting friend I guess 

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10 hours ago, Shankar said:

Oh, my bad. That one was from our other interesting friend I guess 

This guy did ask how he could respond to a direct email about dietary restrictions to note he was lactose intolerant, so you weren't far off.

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To be fair, while I think Loopstra sounds like a great firm, I do agree that Etobicoke is a hellhole with no transit and would never work in that area myself...  But they do have a shared space downtown I'm pretty sure. Not sure how much leverage a student would have to demand to work there, though...

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For people who have been hired so far post recruit - did you do any networking with the firm beforehand? Blaney did not even extend an interview to several people who I thought were top candidates based on their grades/resumes and I'm wondering what it is these places are looking for? 

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1 hour ago, icecreamsandwich said:

For people who have been hired so far post recruit - did you do any networking with the firm beforehand? Blaney did not even extend an interview to several people who I thought were top candidates based on their grades/resumes and I'm wondering what it is these places are looking for? 

What students don't seem to understand is that firms are looking for different things. If every firm defined a "top candidate" the same way, then every firm would be giving interviews and making offers to the exact same people. That doesn't happen. So, there must be some differentiation in what each firm is looking for.

Maybe a firm knows they'll likely only be able to hire people into their employment and tax groups, so their "top candidates" are those with some demonstrated interest in those areas - someone could have excellent grades and good experience, but no demonstrated interest in those areas, so they're out. Maybe a firm primarily uses their students for research, and they've found that historically their best students are those with law journal or RA experience, so their "top candidates" are those with law journal or RA experience - someone could have great grades and be stacked with moot and clinic experience, but that's not the kind of experience this firm values for the kind of work their students do, so they're out.

Each firm is different, and could be looking for different kinds of experience/grades for different reasons. There's no clear answer to your question.

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1 hour ago, barelylegal said:

What students don't seem to understand is that firms are looking for different things. If every firm defined a "top candidate" the same way, then every firm would be giving interviews and making offers to the exact same people. That doesn't happen. So, there must be some differentiation in what each firm is looking for.

Maybe a firm knows they'll likely only be able to hire people into their employment and tax groups, so their "top candidates" are those with some demonstrated interest in those areas - someone could have excellent grades and good experience, but no demonstrated interest in those areas, so they're out. Maybe a firm primarily uses their students for research, and they've found that historically their best students are those with law journal or RA experience, so their "top candidates" are those with law journal or RA experience - someone could have great grades and be stacked with moot and clinic experience, but that's not the kind of experience this firm values for the kind of work their students do, so they're out.

Each firm is different, and could be looking for different kinds of experience/grades for different reasons. There's no clear answer to your question.

Right, but I'm wondering if anyone who has been hired/interviewed so far can shed some light on why they think they we're chosen, etc. 

Edited by icecreamsandwich

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38 minutes ago, icecreamsandwich said:

Right, but I'm wondering if anyone who has been hired/interviewed so far can shed some light on why they think they we're chosen, etc. 

Unlikely, since they’d identify themselves as one of the handful of students hired. 

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Frankly, who cares what a student invited for an interview might say? For example, I still get annual messages from people asking about the TDSB interview that I had in 2014. Grades wise, I certainly would not have been what people would have considered an attractive candidate. I can guess why I was invited for an interview (because I'm pretty awesome) but it doesn't actually help others understand why they were/weren't called for an interview. As barelylegal says, there can absolutely be behind-the-scenes reasons why one type of candidate may be invited for interviews over others.

 

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2 minutes ago, artsydork said:

Frankly, who cares what a student invited for an interview might say? For example, I still get annual messages from people asking about the TDSB interview that I had in 2014. Grades wise, I certainly would not have been what people would have considered an attractive candidate. I can guess why I was invited for an interview (because I'm pretty awesome) but it doesn't actually help others understand why they were/weren't called for an interview. As barelylegal says, there can absolutely be behind-the-scenes reasons why one type of candidate may be invited for interviews over others.

 

so basically there's nothing I can do to improve my chances of getting an interview, i shouldn't bother trying to figure it out, life is meaningless, and existence is futile. 😍

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2 minutes ago, icecreamsandwich said:

so basically there's nothing I can do to improve my chances of getting an interview, i shouldn't bother trying to figure it out, life is meaningless, and existence is futile. 😍

Stop reading Nietzche and work with your CDO. Also, you wrote "why we're interviewed" so it sounds like you received interviews. Hearing about why a student got an interview isn't all that helpful - working with professionals who can give you practical advice about interviewing skills, resumes and cover letters is better use of your time. Practice some interviews. And also recognize, as barelylegal writes, that there are some things out of your control

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