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General 2L Recruit Question Thread

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Just now, Deadpool said:

I can tell you that I've been questioning the support and advice U of T offers its students because this thread has been shocking to say the least. You attend the best law school in Canada; what more can you ask for? Are U of T students even aware that other schools' OCI success rates is less than 25%? 

Best law school may be a reach, and if this forum is in anyway representative of its students, then I think it's certainly worth discussing U of T issues. I've never heard of this level of anxiety at other schools, and it certainly isn't present at my school (McGill).

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2 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Best law school may be a reach, and if this forum is in anyway representative of its students, then I think it's certainly worth discussing U of T issues. I've never heard of this level of anxiety at other schools, and it certainly isn't present at my school (McGill).

lol

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4 hours ago, talos said:

So what actually happens tonight after 5PM? How late do firms go with their offers? I imagine with certain people turning down offers that firms thought were sure things, are a new wave of offers extended into later this week? I believe the deadline to accept is 24 hours - so is there usually activity of new offers after the initial rejections by some candidates?

Students can hold things open to decide for 24 hours, but for us, if the entire process isn't wrapped up in five minutes, something's gone wrong.  Some firms are a little less efficient than mine and the process can be expected to drag on for an hour.

1 hour ago, Newfoundland said:

 @Diplock. I have calmed down and have relaxed and taken your advice, I will after tomorrow when recruit is over

Really glad to hear this.  You're obviously very conscientious and dedicated, and you're undoubtedly a good candidate for a big commercial firm.  But long-term success is the goal, not just landing an articling gig and then going down in flames.  In your present state of mind an articling position could have a drastically negative effect on your health and your odds of hireback.  Getting yourself into a more centered place will go a long way to building the kind of career you're targeting.  This setback might be a blessing in disguise if it helps you navigate the stresses and uncertainties of firm politics in the future with a toolkit for managing anxiety.  

1 hour ago, kakoke said:

What if your grades for this semester drop or are even atrocious?

They won't be.  The top students are completely checked out now.  Your grades are going to go up.  It's those of you that do land a job that are going to be asking me later whether you need to disclose your "D" to your firm.

1 minute ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Best law school may be a reach, and if this forum is in anyway representative of its students, then I think it's certainly worth discussing U of T issues. I've never heard of this level of anxiety at other schools, and it certainly isn't present at my school (McGill).

An extra eleventy bajillion dollars in student debt will do that to you.

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Alright, let’s move on from that particular poster now. S/he won’t be responding after this, so it wouldn’t be fair to continue to engage. 

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Yes, let's move on to this poster and the adorable kitten therein:

61ztsWajN2L._SY606_.jpg

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1 hour ago, jwms said:

This is definitely less of a general 2L Recruit questions thread than it is a Newfoundland 2L Recruit questions thread.

Is it really necessary to publicly pick on the person who is clearly most struggling during this process? I mean really, are you considering the effect that a comment like yours (multiplied by previous similar comments) will have on him, or are you just trying to score some pointless internet karma for an easy chirp? There’s no need to kick this person while they’re down. Newfoundland is obviously struggling with some anxiety issues, and if you can’t empathize with that enough to refrain from taking shots at him, I honesty feel sorry for you. That’s not cool. 

Newfoundland - I hope you use this opportunity to reflect on the importance of prioritizing your mental health, especially during stressful times. Life will always have stressful periods: whether it’s OCIs, in firms, studying for the bar, the articling job hunt, trying to become partner, starting a family, taking care of our parents as they age, etc. etc. The list honestly goes on forever, and expand/ to all of life not just law related stuff. No matter how good things seem on the surface, for anyone, it’s a fact of human life that we all will have to deal with anxiety inducing situations as we go through life. Our health, both physically and mentally, is the greatest asset and gift we have, and it’s important to take care of it. I hope you will reflect on that truth as a result of this experience. All of us, even the Bay Street big shots, take very serious steps to manage and control our mental health. It’s a healthy thing to do, and looking into your options in that regard is nothing but a good thing. We all do it. Please consider it.

You’ll see with time that this Bay Street recruit is just one tiny sliver of the overall pie - there are many pathways to success for you, even if it doesn’t feel like it right now. Good luck to you and please feel free to DM me if you ever wanna talk more. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Uriel said:

Students can hold things open to decide for 24 hours, but for us, if the entire process isn't wrapped up in five minutes, something's gone wrong. 

Any chance you folks are gonna need a first year associate next year? Cause frankly, this attitude is a winner (and lines up with everything else I've heard). 

 

Please do note, though, I think your firm is an exception rather than a rule. 

Edited by whoknows
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1 hour ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Best law school may be a reach, and if this forum is in anyway representative of its students, then I think it's certainly worth discussing U of T issues. I've never heard of this level of anxiety at other schools, and it certainly isn't present at my school (McGill)

It doesn't hurt to pay a third or a quarter of U of T's tuition at McGill either.

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2 minutes ago, JaysFan364 said:

It doesn't hurt to pay a third or a quarter of U of T's tuition at McGill either.

Or be a Quebec resident and pay 4K a year.

 

There’s a reason I only applied to one school!

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2 minutes ago, JaysFan364 said:

It doesn't hurt to pay a third or a quarter of U of T's tuition at McGill either.

More than that for sure, especially since we pay for an extra term of education, and lose out on a year of opportunity cost. McGill isn't cheap if you don't subject yourself to overloading law school credits and finishing in 3 years.

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1 hour ago, Deadpool said:

I can tell you that I've been questioning the support and advice U of T offers its students because this thread has been shocking to say the least. You attend the best law school in Canada; what more can you ask for? Are U of T students even aware that other schools' OCI success rates is less than 25%? 

I have to push back strongly at your claim. The CDO at UofT is great. They've been with us every step of the way, providing us with great resources and people to speak to if we needed help. 

They were always available and willing to speak to us about anything related to the process.

I think that the high OCI success rate does actually cause (a part of) the student body to be more anxious. If you aren't in the majority that gets a position, you (may) feel like the minority that didn't "succeed" by default. It's a common in-group\out-group feeling. Compare that to other schools where a minority of the class gets these jobs; then it's not as big a deal if you don't get one. I personally don't think it's a good way to look at things, but I think this is what a lot of people feel.

Combine this with enormous student debt (tuition + living in TO), and you see why a school that has a student body with a lot of Type A personalities (self-selected) feeling more anxious than average. 

 

Edited by JaysFan364
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6 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

More than that for sure, especially since we pay for an extra term of education, and lose out on a year of opportunity cost. McGill isn't cheap if you don't subject yourself to overloading law school credits and finishing in 3 years.

I’ve got to disagree with you there, pal. 
 

Sure we’re pay for an extra term if we decide to do it in 3.5 instead of fast tracking it and doing it in 3. The benefit- there are people at McGill who are able to do 3 recruitment cycles by thinking they’ll do it in three years, strike out at in firms, do the recruit again next year, strike out or get a job, and if not do it again.

That’s not something folks at Ontario schools get to do. 

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Let's not turn this into a U of T vs. McGill discussion.  Leave the discussion for OCI recruitment questions for those who are actually participating in it, please.

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2 hours ago, Deadpool said:

I can tell you that I've been questioning the support and advice U of T offers its students because this thread has been shocking to say the least. You attend the best law school in Canada; what more can you ask for? Are U of T students even aware that other schools' OCI success rates is less than 25%? 

It’s not the support. The support is great. The problem is the pressure, which often comes from other students. It’s a bullpen of anxiety and needlessly high expectations. It’s not that U of T students are competitive, but they are extremely Bay St focused, to their own detriment. Some of the things you hear around the halls are literally insane: “I feel so bad for [student], he has to work at [non-seven sister firm] after graduating from U of T! That sucks!” 95% of students at other schools would probably die to work at said firm. I don’t think very many people want to admit that the whole vibe is “Bay St or bust” which results in people like Newfoundland who don’t even research other recruits outside of the OCI process and don’t even consider other options that might make them happy.

How can you know for sure whether or not you want to work on Bay St, if you’ve never actually worked at a large full service firm before? Especially since the industry has a high attrition rate... and yet people like Newfoundland exist, I believe we all have a little bit of Newfoundland in us because of the general culture.

I will say that this problem would be a lot easier solved if the CDO did offer more support in getting students to explore other options, I’m not sure what it’s like for government work but for more niche practice areas, it isn’t the best.

Edited by wtamow
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Just now, BlockedQuebecois said:

Before anyone asks: act like a normal person. If your phone rings at 5:00, you can answer it by saying “Hello”. 

I have a joke planned let’s hope I don’t have my offer rescinded right away*

 

*(let’s hope I get an offer)

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I have nothing of value to add to this thread.

Except that Lakehead is the true Harvard of the north and also the best law school in Canada the world.

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2 hours ago, Uriel said:

They won't be.  The top students are completely checked out now.  Your grades are going to go up.  It's those of you that do land a job that are going to be asking me later whether you need to disclose your "D" to your firm.

An extra eleventy bajillion dollars in student debt will do that to you.

Uriel, you're delightful and fantastic. And I know you didn't mean it this way -this is purely for some future student reading this who might be overly worried that not choosing/having a Bay St. job is a mistake. Especially since all hell might break loose in an hour. 

Not being on Bay St. does not mean you're/anyone is not a top student. Obviously. This shouldn't have to be said. Not all the top students do the recruit, and some who do don't get employed through it. Being on Bay St. or at a big firm is not always a reflection on how well a student did/didn't do in school. 

24 minutes ago, wtamow said:

Some of the things you hear around the halls are literally insane: “I feel so bad for [student], he has to work at [non-seven sister firm] after graduating from U of T! That sucks!” 95% of students at other schools would probably die to work at said firm. I don’t think very many people want to admit that the whole vibe is “Bay St or bust” which results in people like Newfoundland who don’t even research other recruits outside of the OCI process and don’t even consider other options that might make them happy.

I will say that this problem would be a lot easier solved if the CDO did offer more support in getting students to explore other options, I’m not sure what it’s like for government work but for more niche practice areas, it isn’t the best.

I think this is specific to either your year, or a very, very, select few people at the school right now. I certainly heard nothing of the sort from anyone in my year or upper years, and I was pretty social - and I'm not that far removed from you guys. 

I'm not a big defender of UofT as an institution - but the students are generally pretty great. Lots of people from UofT do other things, and often it's because they want to - not because they didn't get a job through the recruit and are upset. The picture painted of the student body on this forum generally is not actually what you'll find at the school. For future readers. 

Anyways, good luck to all of you. :) 

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I've heard that recruiters sometimes set up students they rejected with jobs at other firms. Is there a way to nudge them to help you out?

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