Jump to content
wtamow

General 2L Recruit Question Thread

Recommended Posts

Barely slept last night... Kept waking up in a mild panic. I told myself I wouldn't let this process get to me, but it really has. 

Good luck you guys. At least we're almost there.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello darkness my old friend....

Well gang, after getting dinged last night and tossing and turning about it since then, I just want to say that for anyone else who doesn’t get the news they want, please don’t let it bring you down too badly. I was pretty pissed when I got the news, but I’ve finally made peace with it. 

There are some really incredible people on this forum who are 100% right when they say that this is only the very beginning of what is going to be a lifetime of great opportunities in our careers. We really are lucky to even be in law school, to have these opportunities now that we used to fantasize about when we were studying for the LSAT and wondering if we’d ever get accepted. If this isn’t the path that works out, it really is okay. There are tons and tons of opportunities still out there.

Now, if anyone wants to drink away this day with me virtually, please feel free to join in. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have posted this before in years past but I will post it again:

Many years ago, I had a full slate of in-firms and didn’t get a job. I kept my grades up and got an interesting summer job through my school’s CDO. I landed an articling position through the articling recruit at a firm that allowed me to find my niche area of practice. A couple of years post-call I was headhunted by a firm that participates in this process and didn’t even give me an OCI back in the day, who had a need for an associate in my area of practice. Now I get to sit on the other side of the table and interview students for these jobs.

Keep your head up, get a job, be good at what you do, and if you want it there are still opportunities to get back to these firms. 

Edited by wakawaka
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what actually happens tonight after 5PM? How late do firms go with their offers? I imagine with certain people turning down offers that firms thought were sure things, are a new wave of offers extended into later this week? I believe the deadline to accept is 24 hours - so is there usually activity of new offers after the initial rejections by some candidates?

Edited by talos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Why? Anyone who strikes out is very likely to do that recruit, and it's likely a good chunk of them (I.e a large number of law students) get jobs. It makes perfect sense.

Not true at all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, talos said:

So what actually happens tonight after 5PM? How late do firms go with their offers? I imagine with certain people turning down offers that firms thought were sure things, are a new wave of offers extended into later this week? I believe the deadline to accept is 24 hours - so is there usually activity of new offers after the initial rejections by some candidates?

Although candidates can hold their offers, I believe it wraps up pretty quickly in practice. I think usually what happens when a candidate receives an offer from Firm A but is hoping for one from Firm B, the candidate will hold offer A and call Firm B to confirm they have filled all of their positions. Once Firm B confirms, they’ll call Firm A back to accept. I suppose a candidate could receive two offers and then take a full day to decide, but I think that’s a rare case.

If candidates flatly turn them down, the firm just moves down to the next name on its call list. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For government jobs (MAG), is the fact that they’ve contacted all your references a good sign or do they do this for every candidate? They contacted my references pretty soon after my interview. Also how late after 5pm will offers be extended?

Edited by blonderachelzane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JaysFan364 said:

I don't think it had anything to do with your written apps. The sense I got -as a fellow colleague going through this same process- is that the in-firm interview stage didn't go as well as you planned.

I took a much different approach and didn't do much prep at all apart from briefly reading the bios of all the people I was slated to meet with that day. 

After that, I just went into it being myself and trying to have a natural conversation with my interviewers. No pre-made lines. No speeches. I answered their questions to the best of my ability in what I believe was an honest way. 

I obviously can't say how successful this strategy was until Wednesday evening, but I got a positive response from every firm I gave strong signals to during the Monday interview.

I'd encourage you to do some mock interviews (if possible) with your career development office where you just wing it. Just go into the interview with very limited prep and see how it turns out. 

I recall you asked if certain types of questions (behavioural vs others) gave away certain kinds of signals from interviewers. To be honest, I've gone through this process with over 20 Interviews so far and I don't think I can readily identify -in the moment- what a behavioural Q is vs other types. I answer whatever Q is thrown at me as if it were my friend asking the same Q. I was really surprised at the level of analysis that you applied to this process. Frankly, it made me anxious on the weekend because I wasn't prepping much at all as compared to you (or at least from what I read based on your questions).

I don't know if this will help you in thinking about this recruitment process differently, but I thought maybe it would help hearing more from a fellow student in the trenches with you currently that is experiencing this stressful recruit cycle with you. 

Cheers and good luck!

I am not trying to disagree with you as that may have been my downfall but almost none of the questions asked to me by the firms that didnt like me enough for a second round were questions I prepared for or got asked in mocks beyond like what is your favorite law class, tell me about yourself. 

I don't know. I thought at one firm all my interviews went well, it had energy, natural convo but I guess not. Another firm I agree there was less conversation in one round but idk it seemed the interviewers did not have much questions for me 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did your written app still play a role in decieding who gets call back after your first in-firm? Thinking if I need to change my written app 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, talos said:

Hello darkness my old friend....

Well gang, after getting dinged last night and tossing and turning about it since then, I just want to say that for anyone else who doesn’t get the news they want, please don’t let it bring you down too badly. I was pretty pissed when I got the news, but I’ve finally made peace with it. 

There are some really incredible people on this forum who are 100% right when they say that this is only the very beginning of what is going to be a lifetime of great opportunities in our careers. We really are lucky to even be in law school, to have these opportunities now that we used to fantasize about when we were studying for the LSAT and wondering if we’d ever get accepted. If this isn’t the path that works out, it really is okay. There are tons and tons of opportunities still out there.

Now, if anyone wants to drink away this day with me virtually, please feel free to join in. 

I keep getting rejected, including the lunch one I was asking about. I have made peace in the sense yeah sucks and I am done but have not made peace in accepting it like I see a really rough path ahead. But my concern is the path to the OCI jobs and not the other ventures in law and I think that is what is causing me to not be at peace. Maybe more paths to come or not, and then on the top of my head in the future I am thinknig will this job lead me to a full service venture or not 

 

Edited by Newfoundland
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

:(   What if we fail the articling recruit too then?

Then you start cold calling and sending out resumes privately while working your ass off. Here's the thing about the formal recruit, more so than other recruits in my opinion, is that in one sense its completely arbitrary. What separates candidate A from candidate B at this stage of the process? Candidate A jumped on the raptors band wagon and was able to talk about basketball with one recruiter who decided to fight for them. Maybe candidate A is third cousin twice removed from someone on the executive committee and this somehow comes to light and implicit nepotistic tendencies kick in. Who knows - no one.

There are contingencies no one will ever be able to control. This is to all the 2Ls out there going through this process not just yourself. Sometimes success is related to nothing specific and, for better or for worse, there is literally nothing you nor anyone can do about it.

Regarding your above post, if you got OCIs and went to in-firms you did everything right. Your resume was good enough to get the OCI and your talking points in the OCI were good enough to get you the in-firms. Stick with your guns and you'll land the job you want eventually.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

:(   What if we fail the articling recruit too then?

you acknowledge the defeat, ask for feedback, and move on to other opportunities, and there will be other opportunities. I gather you are quite young and haven't had much disappointment/adversity in life, the point of all of this is to do better and improve upon your failures. Don't let this take over your life. 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FingersCr0ssed said:

Then you start cold calling and sending out resumes privately while working your ass off. Here's the thing about the formal recruit, more so than other recruits in my opinion, is that in one sense its completely arbitrary. What separates candidate A from candidate B at this stage of the process? Candidate A jumped on the raptors band wagon and was able to talk about basketball with one recruiter who decided to fight for them. Maybe candidate A is third cousin twice removed from someone on the executive committee and this somehow comes to light and implicit nepotistic tendencies kick in. Who knows - no one.

There are contingencies no one will ever be able to control. This is to all the 2Ls out there going through this process not just yourself. Sometimes success is related to nothing specific and, for better or for worse, there is literally nothing you nor anyone can do about it.

Regarding your above post, if you got OCIs and went to in-firms you did everything right. Your resume was good enough to get the OCI and your talking points in the OCI were good enough to get you the in-firms. Stick with your guns and you'll land the job you want eventually.

You are saying maybe if I had a different interviewer in my first round my fortunes may have changed because of what could have been talked about to someone else or someone else is more eager to vouch for students? OH okay, it's because I noticed at an in-firm one lawyer had nothing annotated but another had my app printed out and was annotated so I was wondering if at the student committee they look through all your materials again :(

Does your last remark even apply to the firms that rejected me on monday and tuesday after lunch? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Oddduck said:

you acknowledge the defeat, ask for feedback, and move on to other opportunities, and there will be other opportunities. I gather you are quite young and haven't had much disappointment/adversity in life, the point of all of this is to do better and improve upon your failures. Don't let this take over your life. 

Can you just speak a bit more to what other opportunities you are referring to? Would the path to OCI jobs be even harder if we were unsuccesful in  artciling recruit, which may be even harder than OCI recruit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

:(   What if we fail the articling recruit too then?

Then you do what many before you did and grind. 

Look, I applied to everywhere in during the OCI process, the Articling Process, etc. All told I probably applied to 150 places. I didn't have a 2L summer job because I couldn't find one. I had 4 different firms tell me that I was 3rd on their list for 2 jobs. I had 2 recruiters and 4 people I had coffee with say "how do you not have a job yet?". Like not even think it, say it to my face while I had to decide between sputtering "I don't know" and "Maybe at the end of this coffee you'll be able to tell me" as a response.

I have an articling job. I got it in February of 3L. It pays well and the hours are good. There are plenty of non-oci opportunities out there that offer a good articling experience. Smaller firms, some midsize, in-house, government, etc. You just have to accept that they aren't going to be wrapped in a pretty little bow and served to you. You have to set your job alerts on indeed/monster/workopolis/linkedin, check the various websites, go meet for coffees, etc. In other words, you have to actually job hunt. And I know it sucks, but there isn't an alternative. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds miserable. I 

14 minutes ago, whoknows said:

Then you do what many before you did and grind. 

Look, I applied to everywhere in during the OCI process, the Articling Process, etc. All told I probably applied to 150 places. I didn't have a 2L summer job because I couldn't find one. I had 4 different firms tell me that I was 3rd on their list for 2 jobs. I had 2 recruiters and 4 people I had coffee with say "how do you not have a job yet?". Like not even think it, say it to my face while I had to decide between sputtering "I don't know" and "Maybe at the end of this coffee you'll be able to tell me" as a response.

I have an articling job. I got it in February of 3L. It pays well and the hours are good. There are plenty of non-oci opportunities out there that offer a good articling experience. Smaller firms, some midsize, in-house, government, etc. You just have to accept that they aren't going to be wrapped in a pretty little bow and served to you. You have to set your job alerts on indeed/monster/workopolis/linkedin, check the various websites, go meet for coffees, etc. In other words, you have to actually job hunt. And I know it sucks, but there isn't an alternative. 

 

Sounds miserable to still be search mode and enver being able to really enjoy law school :( Law school seems to me to be about job searches for the majority of the time

Edited by Newfoundland
  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

Sounds miserable to still be search mode and enver being able to really enjoy law school :( Law school seems to me to be about job searches for the majority of the time

Just pretend it's document review and you can have both a Bay St. experience and apply for jobs at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Recent Posts

    • This isn't true. Western undergrad is aiming to provide 25-30% of classes in person. To make this happen, I imagine that every building on campus that can be used, will be used. The Faculty of Law has discussed the possibility that any classrooms too small to accommodate classes will be converted to study rooms, so that space is utilized as much as possible.  Further, to your point that upper year classes could be held in our larger lecture halls, we only have maybe 3 classrooms that could accommodate a 25 person class with social distancing. Those will be full just from running the small group program - the school has said that all other in-person 1L classes will have to be held at the Faculty of Education.  I get that you're frustrated. I'm sad that we won't be back in school too. But this clearly isn't admin being lazy. Delivering both in person and online options this year, while creating contingency plans for a second wave, has got to be a logistical nightmare. Many schools have given up entirely and gone 100% online. I'm happy they're giving 1Ls an opportunity to make the most of their 1st year, even if it means the rest of us get the short end of the stick. 
    • I agree with you - 1L's need in person the most. I just think that since the plan is already there for some in person classes, why cant it be extended for a small selection of upper year classes, especially given that we were told of a mixed model and that Western thrives with in person interaction? Upper years shouldn't be told to do everything online because 1L's need more socialization and deserve the building more, to me at least, that is not enough.   
    • I can't speak to whether the reasons stated were the real reasons or not, but I do personally think that the largest transition is from 0L to 1L. Unlike upper year students, incoming 1Ls currently have no formed relationships with other students, no understanding of the law, no experience with legal research, etc. Many have never done a moot or been in a law library. None have had the kind of legal education that only in person classes can bring (I'm thinking lots of questions/discussion).  Many law schools are going fully online for all years. The way I see it they made a decision to try to keep some semblance of normalcy for the entering 1Ls, putting extra resources/effort into them, rather than taking from 2Ls and 3Ls. But I can absolutely appreciate the feeling that it is unfair. All students will likely pay the same tuition, and surely most students would prefer an in-person experience. I do hope that admin/the SLS hear you, and perhaps complaints from your fellow students, and are able to accomodate something that feels more fair to you. These are definitely shit times. 
    • That’s unfair to upper year students. Admin has chosen to sacrifice 2Ls and 3Ls so that 1Ls get to be almost fully in-person.    1L’s were given a choice if they want their classes to be online, or in person – why can’t 2L’s and 3L’s? For 1L’s who choose in-person, all their classes are in person except constitutional. Upper years don't even get 1 class in person. We were told of a “mixed model” but that was thrown out completely.   Many of the upper year classes are capped at 25 people. These classes can happen in the larger lecture halls that hold 80+, and the 80 student classes kept online. This is especially confusing when all of Western undergrad has moved online, the campus is essentially entirely empty buildings.   Why is absolutely no effort being made to accommodate upper year students? The decision has even been made for winter term for upper years to be online – why is there no flexibility here at all? At no point has admin suggested that they will try to move for in-person classes in the winter semester if circumstances change.    It is lazy for admin to do nothing for upper years. I cannot help but think that various economic and business reasons were factored into the decision to give upper years the short end of the stick. I say this because there has been a total lack of transparency in the decision-making process, we have not been given an explanation as to why admin has so quickly given up on our educational experience.    The Dean reasons that social integration and building connections is important for 1Ls. But this is just as important in 2L and 3L. Plus, the social integration and academic support between 1Ls and upper years is so crucial to building connections at law school. I know my 1L experience would not have been as successful if I didn't have the help I got from upper years.    Further, two-thirds of covid-19 cases come from the GTA. London is fairly safe and will be safer come September. While there is a chance of transmission by having students move back, admin may students to isolate for 14 days prior to start of classes.   I have no hope left in admin as they appear to be set in their decision. I truly hope students keep the pressure on admin, especially the SLS at Western Law, to try to get some sort of in person education for upper year students. For most of us, it is our last year(s) of schooling before we enter the workforce forever – let’s not let go of it so easily.
    • I have declined the offer. The first concern I had about this program was the cost, and after giving it about 6 weeks' thought, this hasn't changed. All the best to everyone.

×
×
  • Create New...