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General 2L Recruit Question Thread

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When do we know today if we are called back? How does reception work  like what are lawyers generally looking for? Just curious since there is no evaluation attached to it directly. Is it to pick out people who very can't socialize or see if they missed anyone? I am curious from the student point of view of what firms are looking for at these types of events.

Edited by Newfoundland

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5 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

When do we know today if we are called back? How does reception work  like what are lawyers generally looking for? 

Did you end up with 2nds today? If so, likely the same way. 

If not, you should send some emails to recruiters at firms that haven’t outright rejected you to see if you can come in tomorrow to meet more people. 

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What happens if we get nothing tomorrow. Will do we find other opportunities since there wont be a OCI event. Will it be even more competitive? What are the chances of latering into an OCI firm job if you strike out tomorrow with nothing?

Edited by Newfoundland

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2 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

What happens if we get nothing tomorrow. Will do we find other opportunities since there wont be a OCI event. Will it be even more competitive? What are the chances of latering into an OCI firm job if you strike out tomorrow with nothing?

There is an articling recruit. I was surprised how many people I met that did strike out at OCIs and ended up getting articling positions through that process.

You should consider asking your interviewers for feedback.

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1 minute ago, chaboywb said:

I was surprised how many people I met that did strike out at OCIs and ended up getting articling positions through that process.

Why? Anyone who strikes out is very likely to do that recruit, and it's likely a good chunk of them (I.e a large number of law students) get jobs. It makes perfect sense.

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3 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

There is an articling recruit. I was surprised how many people I met that did strike out at OCIs and ended up getting articling positions through that process.

You should consider asking your interviewers for feedback.

Do they give feedback? Would they be willing to still talk to you since they rejected you.  Would they still remember you?  How do we make the request usually?

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Just now, pzabbythesecond said:

Why? Anyone who strikes out is very likely to do that recruit, and it's likely a good chunk of them (I.e a large number of law students) get jobs. It makes perfect sense.

Just because I've always heard that the articling recruit is smaller for the big firms, since most of them do all their hiring in the summer. From the numbers, it's pretty clear that the mid-sized and smaller firms that hire 1-3 articling students end up taking a sizeable portion of the students who are still looking.

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2 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

Do they give feedback? Would they be willing to still talk to you since they rejected you.  Would they still remember you?  How do we make the request usually?

I don't have a definitive answer, and I'm sure it's different from person to person. But I have received some excellent interview feedback from missing job opportunities in the past.

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4 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

Just because I've always heard that the articling recruit is smaller for the big firms, since most of them do all their hiring in the summer. From the numbers, it's pretty clear that the mid-sized and smaller firms that hire 1-3 articling students end up taking a sizeable portion of the students who are still looking.

What if you still want to do fulll service law firm. Is the chance really slim? 

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Just now, Newfoundland said:

What if you still want to do fulll service law firm. Is the chance really slim? 

Again, man, I don't know. I'm also a student going through this with you. From what I've seen, the opportunities are still there. You can still become an excellent lawyer. But you NEED to learn from this process! 

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Hey, so moment of clarity for you guys: your worth as a person and as a future lawyer is not being determined this week.

It feels that way. It’s ok to feel that way. Just trust me from the cold and logical distance of fifteen years from where you are now: this will be a single memory among many for what will be for the vast, vast, VAST majority of you, a very long and fulfilling career. 

Whatever happens, you are a person of worth and intelligence and skill. And getting a call back or not is not the final word on that and was never going to be. 

There is so much opportunity ahead of you. You can’t see it. But it’s there. 

Go to sleep. It will be ok.

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Bay Street jobs are a 1-3 year gig for most people, and after that point we often have to hire in laterals from mid-sized firms to fill the gaps they leave.  (Most people don't want to leave other Bay Street firms to join a competitor because it's basically the same job but you're having to start over politically.)

OCIs are the path of least resistance -- the easiest way to get a job on Bay Street.  After that, these firms are just regular workplaces where you get in through cold calls, personal introductions, ads, recruiters, etc., just like any other business with changing personnel requirements. 

There's a perception that this is it, that if you didn't get a job through this process, it's all over for you!  Except, there are lots of other equally or more interesting jobs, many of which are at comparable rates of pay, and probably half of our lawyers aren't homegrown through the OCI process.  We hire them later, from mid-level firms, from in-house, from government... from anyplace that has a book of business we want or expertise we need. 

But this is a contest, so people assign it an inordinate amount of importance.  I mean, it's important --- it's an easy way in to a great career, and maybe even the usual way in --- but not the only way in by a long shot.

How does that Graham Bell quote go?  "When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us."

I have a buddy at the firm that struck out at OCIs.  He wanted to do construction litigation on Bay Street.  No such luck.  So he went to another firm that basically paid 85% as much and required 200 hours less work, and hustled to get clients just like he would have on Bay.  He got those clients, we lost a construction lawyer, we went looking for someone we knew and liked with a book of business, he fit the bill, we hired him after three years of practice.  Now both of us are up for partner at the same time.  About half of our partnership class every year are laterals.

Just saying.

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Are lateral hires treated diffierently at a major bay street firm for not starting as a student?  What if we dont have a book of buisness in a mid size firm what can we do to increase our chances of getting hired on a bay street firm. More generally, what can I do today as a law student to increase my chances of a lateral hire

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11 minutes ago, Uriel said:

Bay Street jobs are a 1-3 year gig for most people, and after that point we often have to hire in laterals from mid-sized firms to fill the gaps they leave.  (Most people don't want to leave other Bay Street firms to join a competitor because it's basically the same job but you're having to start over politically.)

OCIs are the path of least resistance -- the easiest way to get a job on Bay Street.  After that, these firms are just regular workplaces where you get in through cold calls, personal introductions, ads, recruiters, etc., just like any other business with changing personnel requirements. 

There's a perception that this is it, that if you didn't get a job through this process, it's all over for you!  Except, there are lots of other equally or more interesting jobs, many of which are at comparable rates of pay, and probably half of our lawyers aren't homegrown through the OCI process.  We hire them later, from mid-level firms, from in-house, from government... from anyplace that has a book of business we want or expertise we need. 

But this is a contest, so people assign it an inordinate amount of importance.  I mean, it's important --- it's an easy way in to a great career, and maybe even the usual way in --- but not the only way in by a long shot.

How does that Graham Bell quote go?  "When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us."

I have a buddy at the firm that struck out at OCIs.  He wanted to do construction litigation on Bay Street.  No such luck.  So he went to another firm that basically paid 85% as much and required 200 hours less work, and hustled to get clients just like he would have on Bay.  He got those clients, we lost a construction lawyer, we went looking for someone we knew and liked with a book of business, he fit the bill, we hired him after three years of practice.  Now both of us are up for partner at the same time.  About half of our partnership class every year are laterals.

Just saying.

You always seem to have the right thing to say.

Can I possibly send you a quick PM to ask you a particular question unique to my experience?

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I would say that getting a job and being good at it are the most important things.

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But are these lateral hire partners that you talk about starting from another similar size/tier law firm or actually started out in a mid size firm? 

 

Also, is it a lot harder and way more competitive to get a Bay street job after tomorrow since there's still so many applicant but for even fewer seats ?

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9 minutes ago, kakoke said:

You always seem to have the right thing to say.

Can I possibly send you a quick PM to ask you a particular question unique to my experience?

Not to hijack the thread on what is extremely your day, but honestly, the further out from applications and law school I get, the more I find I don't have a lot to contribute on most of these boards anymore.  I don't know how the financing works these days, the LSAT is all borked up, my info about my law school is stale... by default, if I want to still be useful, I find it tends to be in a mentorship kind of role.  I'm posting way less because we have so much bench strength now, with better and more recent information, and I'm finding myself mostly explaining the business of law, going for coffee and answering PMs. 

Definitely fire away; that's why I'm here tonight.

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Damn, just got the rejection email after being asked for a second interview, and completing it Tuesday afternoon. Had one of the partners even email me after the first interview on Monday to say that he thinks I’d be a fantastic fit with the rest of the team. Savage. It stings but, life will go on. 

Thanks to everybody for the help in this thread, it’s been fun sharing in the collective neuroticism together. Wishing everyone good luck tomorrow. 

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7 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

Are lateral hires treated diffierently at a major bay street firm for not starting as a student?  What if we dont have a book of buisness in a mid size firm what can we do to increase our chances of getting hired on a bay street firm. More generally, what can I do today as a law student to increase my chances of a lateral hire

CHILL. NOW.

Normal progression of a lawyer's career:

1) Graduate law school

2) Get a job. A job. any job.

3) Get called to the bar.

4) Learn what the law actually is.

5) Learn how to be a lawyer

6a) Build a book of business

6b) Leave private practice.

 

You need to focus on where you are at right now. You are at 0.

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