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32 minutes ago, harveyspecter993 said:

I know a lot of law students who would gladly sign on to indentured servitude at a big firm.

Now, that's a damn shame.

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It is incredible how viewpoints shift with some real world experience under your belt, and once you are out of the OCI/law school bubble. The same law students I know who would have sold a kidney to get into a big firm back in law school, are now seeking out exit options 1-3 years out. This one person only wanted to surround themselves with other Bay Street gunners in law school and recently told me that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Just some food for thought. I think working at a big firm can definitely be enjoyable and valuable experience if that is where your interests lie, but you need to have the maturity and emotional intelligence to know what you want out of it. You need to know yourself well and have realistic expectations. 

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4 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

It is incredible how viewpoints shift with some real world experience under your belt, and once you are out of the OCI/law school bubble. The same law students I know who would have sold a kidney to get into a big firm back in law school, are now seeking out exit options 1-3 years out. This one person only wanted to surround themselves with other Bay Street gunners in law school and recently told me that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Just some food for thought. I think working at a big firm can definitely be enjoyable and valuable experience if that is where your interests lie, but you need to have the maturity and emotional intelligence to know what you want out of it. You need to know yourself well and have realistic expectations. 

Mansion next to Drake's and a trophy wife.

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Do students usually state a preference for transactional or litigation for full-service firms that does both? I have a background in tech so I have not really had exposure in either areas, but I am leaning transactional. 

Edited by Newfoundland

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There's no "usually". Yes some students state a preference, others keep it wide open. There's no magic answer here dude.

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On 10/2/2019 at 7:28 PM, Newfoundland said:

Have you ever had students ask questions that demonstrate a lack of interest/fit in the firm that hurt them? For example, if I am into tech and I asked Is your tech practice growing, what if they say "no". Would that hurt me? If the answer is "no" are there ways to save the answer like moving onto a different practice areas? Are there ways to research what area is growing (and not what areas exist)?  I heard this isn't a time to ask about partnership progression but I feel like that is pertinent for the 10 year plan you mentioned. Should I ask more long-term oriented questions than questions just on the student program?

The one kid that asked us how we could live with ourselves doing the kind of world-destroying work we do might have taken herself down a couple of points.  The dude that asked an anti-Semitic question also found the elevator bank pretty fast.

Honestly, I did hurt myself a bit with one of those questions while I was OCIing with a large national firm.  I said I was interested in this niche area, the interviewer said they didn't practice in that area.  I couldn't tell if it was worse to just go, "oh" and be quiet, so instead I mentioned the names of his partners that held themselves out as that group. Interview didn't go too well after that, but I don't really see how it could have gone differently. 

Can you hurt yourself with a question?  It's possible.  Will you?  Almost certainly not.  Most questions are pretty anodyne.

On 10/2/2019 at 8:45 PM, easttowest said:

I think you should take a break from the forum for a while. You’re way overthinking this.

One thing I'd like to reinforce is that y'all are weird as hell.  If you're reading this, you're in way too deep already.  Honestly, fully a third of candidates have absolutely no idea how the process goes, have never heard of "first choice", schedule their first interview at 3:00 because they want to sleep in... they just don't have a clue and don't look it up, and they're pretty chill people and they get hired too.  This really isn't a skills test, people.

No one's out here trying to trip you up or find a fault to pounce on.  We're just here to meet you and see if we get along.  To some extent, you've been preparing for this your whole life.  To another extent, you can't prepare.  Just know your resume, know a bit about the firm, come in with an open mind and a handful of genuine questions and let's see where this thing goes.

On 10/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, Deadpool said:

It is incredible how viewpoints shift with some real world experience under your belt, and once you are out of the OCI/law school bubble. The same law students I know who would have sold a kidney to get into a big firm back in law school, are now seeking out exit options 1-3 years out. This one person only wanted to surround themselves with other Bay Street gunners in law school and recently told me that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Just some food for thought. I think working at a big firm can definitely be enjoyable and valuable experience if that is where your interests lie, but you need to have the maturity and emotional intelligence to know what you want out of it. You need to know yourself well and have realistic expectations. 

For sure.  I spent my 1L going to the government lawyer and sole practitioner career nights.  Now I'm the senior associate in a Bay Street litigation department and all the gunners are off in-house at totally random places and we're all living our best lives.  People don't think it be like it is, but it do.

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19 hours ago, Uriel said:

The one kid that asked us how we could live with ourselves doing the kind of world-destroying work we do might have taken herself down a couple of points.  The dude that asked an anti-Semitic question also found the elevator bank pretty fast.

Honestly, I did hurt myself a bit with one of those questions while I was OCIing with a large national firm.  I said I was interested in this niche area, the interviewer said they didn't practice in that area.  I couldn't tell if it was worse to just go, "oh" and be quiet, so instead I mentioned the names of his partners that held themselves out as that group. Interview didn't go too well after that, but I don't really see how it could have gone differently. 

Can you hurt yourself with a question?  It's possible.  Will you?  Almost certainly not.  Most questions are pretty anodyne.

One thing I'd like to reinforce is that y'all are weird as hell.  If you're reading this, you're in way too deep already.  Honestly, fully a third of candidates have absolutely no idea how the process goes, have never heard of "first choice", schedule their first interview at 3:00 because they want to sleep in... they just don't have a clue and don't look it up, and they're pretty chill people and they get hired too.  This really isn't a skills test, people.

No one's out here trying to trip you up or find a fault to pounce on.  We're just here to meet you and see if we get along.  To some extent, you've been preparing for this your whole life.  To another extent, you can't prepare.  Just know your resume, know a bit about the firm, come in with an open mind and a handful of genuine questions and let's see where this thing goes.

For sure.  I spent my 1L going to the government lawyer and sole practitioner career nights.  Now I'm the senior associate in a Bay Street litigation department and all the gunners are off in-house at totally random places and we're all living our best lives.  People don't think it be like it is, but it do.

 

What if you asked questions about the lawyer's practice areas or a recent case they did or is this not the best platform to learn more about a practice area and I should ask firm-specific questions? I am interested in IP because of my tech background and a lawyer interviewing me is an IP lawyer. Conversely, if you are interviewing with a finance lawyer, should you ask questions about finance or about other practice areas that they may be able to shed some light on? 

Really? It feels like people around me are taking it really intensely like missing class to prepare for OCIs. 

Edited by Newfoundland

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If you are asked litigation or transactional, is it fine to give a neutral answer to say you are open to both? Do firms when hiring students look to fill certain staffing needs (e.g., We need 4 in litigation and 8 in transactional to meet our growth plans) ? I know they do for laterals but not sure if it starts at a student level. 

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4 minutes ago, Newfoundland said:

If you are asked litigation or transactional, is it fine to give a neutral answer to say you are open to both? Do firms when hiring students look to fill certain staffing needs (e.g., We need 4 in litigation and 8 in transactional to meet our growth plans) ? I know they do for laterals but not sure if it starts at a student level. 

Dude, I really hope you get a job. You've heard it enough on this forum but you need to chill a bit. I think you should answer with the truth and ask questions that really interest you. It's a stressful process but overthinking minor details will probably work against you on interview day. 

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1 hour ago, Newfoundland said:

If you are asked litigation or transactional, is it fine to give a neutral answer to say you are open to both? Do firms when hiring students look to fill certain staffing needs (e.g., We need 4 in litigation and 8 in transactional to meet our growth plans) ? I know they do for laterals but not sure if it starts at a student level. 

Honestly man, they are not slotting you into an associate spot 2 years out in your 20 minute OCI interview. Just be honest. Also obviously a neutral answer is mine, the vast majority of students have no idea what they want to do and half will switch over their time at the firm.

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2 hours ago, WindsorHopeful said:

Dude, I really hope you get a job. You've heard it enough on this forum but you need to chill a bit. I think you should answer with the truth and ask questions that really interest you. It's a stressful process but overthinking minor details will probably work against you on interview day. 

No it definitely works against you. No probably about it.

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4 hours ago, Newfoundland said:

If you are asked litigation or transactional, is it fine to give a neutral answer to say you are open to both? Do firms when hiring students look to fill certain staffing needs (e.g., We need 4 in litigation and 8 in transactional to meet our growth plans) ? I know they do for laterals but not sure if it starts at a student level. 

None of this matters, man. You’re having a 17 minute conversation with two humans who just want to know if they might want to work with you later. That’s all it is, really. 

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The people interviewing you at OCIs have no idea what we're going to be hiring for two and a half years out.  What we do know is that we're going to be hiring basically an entire high school class full of law students that are all going to change their minds about their career path two or three times over the course of articling.  So when we get students saying they have no idea what they want to do and they want to try everything, that's fine with us.

Honestly if I'm asking you if you're thinking litigation or commercial it's just because I want to know what you'll be interested in hearing about and who you might like to meet.  I'm not mentally fitting you into a department.  I have no power to do that.

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12 hours ago, WindsorHopeful said:

Dude, I really hope you get a job. You've heard it enough on this forum but you need to chill a bit. I think you should answer with the truth and ask questions that really interest you. It's a stressful process but overthinking minor details will probably work against you on interview day. 

Why do you and the other poster even care how much this guy is overthinking it? Leave him alone

Edited by Trew
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24 minutes ago, Trew said:

Why do you and the other poster even care how much this guy is overthinking it? Leave him alone

Personally, I see a lot of my own anxiety in his posts and feel bad for him. Ive gotten a lot better the past year and a big part of it was having people tell me to chill out.

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12 hours ago, Newfoundland said:

If you are asked litigation or transactional, is it fine to give a neutral answer to say you are open to both? Do firms when hiring students look to fill certain staffing needs (e.g., We need 4 in litigation and 8 in transactional to meet our growth plans) ? I know they do for laterals but not sure if it starts at a student level. 

Is it very difficult to just be yourself?

 

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53 minutes ago, Trew said:

Why do you and the other poster even care how much this guy is overthinking it? Leave him alone

He is literally asking for advice. I am stating my advice. I literally said I hope he gets a job. 

????????????

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2 hours ago, chaboywb said:

Personally, I see a lot of my own anxiety in his posts and feel bad for him. Ive gotten a lot better the past year and a big part of it was having people tell me to chill out.

Did you relax the weekend before OCIs? Did you "ignore" the pressure from peers on how much research they are doing for each firm? Even when I talk to upper-years they are stressing to me how important it is to do research for each firm to show interest by doing all these stuff they did like read up on their cases. 

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