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147sr90md

1st year associate positions- where to look?

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Hello all

I'm a recent call in Ontario. I articled in a boutique firm practicing Insurance Defence with a focus on municipality liability and Fire and Police department liability. I did not get hired back, which was a blessing as I was looking to branch out of Insurance Defence. I have been scouting Linkedin and indeed for job postings, but havent had any luck with 0-2 years call postings. Most, if not all are 3-5 years. 

I have vast knowledge in the medical field and health law, as well as a LL.M in international crime and justice focusing on money laundering and corruption, Asset recovery and MLA, human trafficking, transnational organized crime, armed conflict and POW, IHL and human rights and counter-terrorism. My interests also encompass copyright law and IP. I am aware that I have a polyamorous marriage with my interests, coupled with my articling experience in civil litigation focused purely in insurance defence that finding a 1st year associate position is going to be quite difficult and might raise red flags for employers. However, I wanted to make sure I wasn't bottlenecking my career trajectory.

Looking for advice as to where to look for 1 st year associate positions and if there are others who didn't get hired back, what did you do in the meantime while looking for jobs? Did anyone branch out from areas they articled in? If I could get some pointers as to where to look for positions, or networking opportunities, it would be a huge help! 

I am open to the public sector, government, policy, in house, and even moving to other provinces.

Thank you

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You just completed your articles in insurance defense and yet claim to have vast knowledge in the field of medical and health law. You've also got an  LLM that focused on 11 different topics unrelated to insurance or civil lit.  But the type of law you are really interested in is IP law.

 

And you intend to tell employers about your poly marriage?  During interviews I assume?  Only way it could be a red flag is if you told someone unless your last name is Blackmore.  

Edited by kurrika
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trolling.

Rare to see job postings for new calls or people with zero experience. You should feel free to apply to the postings asking for 3-5 years of experience. For the most part, employers will put that as their minimum ask even if they are willing to hire a new call. Some of those jobs will go to new or newer calls. Other than that, you could contact firms directly and ask if they are hiring or have been considering hiring an associate. Can't help you with networking tips but certainly someone with a vast, polyamorous marriage of knowledge and interests can find something in common with nearly every lawyer, to make a coffee meeting worthwhile. 

Edited by BringBackCrunchBerries
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11 hours ago, kurrika said:

You just completed your articles in insurance defense and yet claim to have vast knowledge in the field of medical and health law. You've also got an  LLM that focused on 11 different topics unrelated to insurance or civil lit.  But the type of law you are really interested in is IP law.

 

And you intend to tell employers about your poly marriage?  During interviews I assume?  Only way it could be a red flag is if you told someone unless your last name is Blackmore.  

I don't think OP meant a literal poly amorous marriage...

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49 minutes ago, artsydork said:

I don't think OP meant a literal poly amorous marriage...

My version is more fun :)

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Either way, avoid the term "poly marriage" in your interview.

Oh, and check the Ontario Reports, and the OBA classifieds:  https://www.oba.org/Publications-and-Resources/Job-Board

The first posting on the OBA classifieds is for a 0-2 year call for a criminal position.  Mr. Confente has struck me as a reasonable man in my run-ins with him, although I can't speak to his virtues as an employer. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 1:21 AM, kurrika said:

You just completed your articles in insurance defense and yet claim to have vast knowledge in the field of medical and health law. You've also got an  LLM that focused on 11 different topics unrelated to insurance or civil lit.  But the type of law you are really interested in is IP law.

 

And you intend to tell employers about your poly marriage?  During interviews I assume?  Only way it could be a red flag is if you told someone unless your last name is Blackmore.  

To add to your unhelpful comment in a forum geared for seeking advice, law school teaches you to employ transferable skills. Having knowledge in an area but working in another, is quite common. Most of us took Constitutional law in law school, but we aren't all practicing in it. I mentioned other interests; however, considering how you failed to comprehend the terms "polyamorous marriage of interests", a jumped conclusion that the only type of law I am really, my apologies, really interested in is IP law, was to be expected. 

Thank you for wasting your time to reply to my post asking for advice. I guess you had nothing better to do at 1:20 am than to employ the anonymity of the internet to post your uncouth and grammatically incorrect opinion.  

On 8/24/2019 at 7:27 AM, utmguy said:

Either way, avoid the term "poly marriage" in your interview.

Oh, and check the Ontario Reports, and the OBA classifieds:  https://www.oba.org/Publications-and-Resources/Job-Board

The first posting on the OBA classifieds is for a 0-2 year call for a criminal position.  Mr. Confente has struck me as a reasonable man in my run-ins with him, although I can't speak to his virtues as an employer. 

Thank you utmguy, I shall look at Ontario Reports! 

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:50 AM, BringBackCrunchBerries said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trolling.

Rare to see job postings for new calls or people with zero experience. You should feel free to apply to the postings asking for 3-5 years of experience. For the most part, employers will put that as their minimum ask even if they are willing to hire a new call. Some of those jobs will go to new or newer calls. Other than that, you could contact firms directly and ask if they are hiring or have been considering hiring an associate. Can't help you with networking tips but certainly someone with a vast, polyamorous marriage of knowledge and interests can find something in common with nearly every lawyer, to make a coffee meeting worthwhile. 

Thank you BringBackCrunchBerries, helpful to know that 3-5 years is usually a minimum ask. 

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27 minutes ago, 147sr90md said:

 

To add to your unhelpful comment in a forum geared for seeking advice, law school teaches you to employ transferable skills.

The middle portion of your post was so over the top with regards to your interests and self-professed knowledge that I assumed you were trolling.   I apologize.  Looking for a 1st year call position can be nerve-wracking.  Good luck.

 

Here's some helpful advice then.  Money laundering is the topic de jour lately.  With a law degree and a masters with some exposure to that topic you may be able to get some interesting work working for government or a crown. 

FINTRAC, OSRE, fed finance, CMHC, and various entities in BC (new crown called the Financial Services Authority, Policy and Legislation Division in Ministry of Finance, Gaming Policy and Enforcement, the AG) and Ontario (don't know the names but they just started a new white collar crimes group) are all working on new initiatives.  Some jobs may not be lawyer jobs per say, but will require a law degree or equivalent.  It may be worth checking government hiring portals and trolling through directories and cold emailing people with a resume.

Edited by kurrika
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On 8/21/2019 at 12:23 AM, 147sr90md said:

Hello all

I'm a recent call in Ontario. I articled in a boutique firm practicing Insurance Defence with a focus on municipality liability and Fire and Police department liability. I did not get hired back, which was a blessing as I was looking to branch out of Insurance Defence. I have been scouting Linkedin and indeed for job postings, but havent had any luck with 0-2 years call postings. Most, if not all are 3-5 years. 

I have vast knowledge in the medical field and health law, as well as a LL.M in international crime and justice focusing on money laundering and corruption, Asset recovery and MLA, human trafficking, transnational organized crime, armed conflict and POW, IHL and human rights and counter-terrorism. My interests also encompass copyright law and IP. I am aware that I have a polyamorous marriage with my interests, coupled with my articling experience in civil litigation focused purely in insurance defence that finding a 1st year associate position is going to be quite difficult and might raise red flags for employers. However, I wanted to make sure I wasn't bottlenecking my career trajectory.

Looking for advice as to where to look for 1 st year associate positions and if there are others who didn't get hired back, what did you do in the meantime while looking for jobs? Did anyone branch out from areas they articled in? If I could get some pointers as to where to look for positions, or networking opportunities, it would be a huge help! 

I am open to the public sector, government, policy, in house, and even moving to other provinces.

Thank you

What do you want to do?  Who inspires you and is doing what you want to be doing?  Figure this out and contact those people.  Become their friends and pick their brains.  If you are truly passionate about something, you will create the right opportunities.  

You can apply for jobs online. Chances are you will hate those jobs, if it’s just a job. And you will be applying for new jobs you hate soon enough.  Or you will just work jobs you are meh about indefinitely because they pay the bills.  This is the life of most lawyers. 

It’s worth spending the time now exploring your many interests and what makes you really excited and pursuing that relentlessly.

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree with the above advice, what about going to a regulator? In addition to the ones mentioned above, IIROC, MFDA or IMET? Money laundering specifically in the real estate industry and the casino industry seems to be big and have a lot of opportunities. Combined with your advocacy training it might be a good fit. I think the key here is to network. Even cold-call people working in those bodies and ask for an informational interview? 

Also, I wouldn't sweat the 3-5 year thing. When I was in your shoes, I had maybe 6 months post call under my belt and I applied, and interviewed for jobs that were 3-5 years post call. You never know.

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There are very few posted new call positions. When I was looking for mine, I attended conferences, asked friends if they knew anyone was hiring, and just sent out resumes to different firms. I had the most luck with the latter. Other people I have talked to haven't had much success applying to positions posted on Indeed, Eluta, Ontario Law Reports, and so on because there are few positions and many more applicants. It ended up being a colossal waste of time for me, but I didn't have vast knowledge in any particular area of law. 

FYI, you should probably work on your business/legal writing and avoid making stylistic choices in your writing that distract from the substance of it:  http://www.ontariocourts.ca/coa/en/ps/speeches/forget.htm

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