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Jasminess

Can't decide between UK LLB or US JD or any hopes for Canadian JD?!

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2 hours ago, Jasminess said:

Everyone knows how Canadian schools are , especially for medicine , dentistry and law . They don't want everybody to get in  and take over the market and $$$ , so what they do is they want you to be 100% in every aspect , like school , work , extra curricular activities and so on AND they consider less than %10 of applicants that are not 3.5+ GPA , obviously what ever I go through right now its my fault , I should've studied harder in my undergrad .. but other than my side its the nature of this country and their education/work  system that is connection based in most cases ( High paid jobs ) and certain people with certain backgrounds can take over on these high demand degrees/jobs which everyone knows but they pretend it doesn't exist ;) anyways thank you so much , I'll work on other parts of my application and try to do really well on the LSAT too and we'll see how it goes 

But don’t you think those individuals that are 100% in all aspects of their application are more deserving than those that are not (assuming they’ve achieved their success with honest hard work and grit?). Like my friends that are in medicine now, have been such hard working people since high school and in my opinion are the most deserving people to get into med school. Same can be said for people in law school. You’re essentially saying that the system isn’t fair because it’s not in your favour, and it seems you’re also implying that those that have done really well in all aspects of their application, may be undeserving to go to law school when compared to someone like you. But I don’t think that makes sense. 

I think “the nature of this country” that you speak of, is what creates decent standards for admission to schools, which therefore allows quality professionals to join their industries upon graduating. 

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4 hours ago, Jasminess said:

Everyone knows how Canadian schools are , especially for medicine , dentistry and law . They don't want everybody to get in 

It's almost like competency and commitment are sought after qualities in doctors, dentists and lawyers. Rigged! Sad!

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4 hours ago, Deadpool said:

I don't want to derail this thread and wasn't going to comment further, but this just irked me quite a bit. 

Do you know that immigrants and first generation Canadians are flooding professional school programs like medicine, dentistry, and law? Something they all have in common is that they worked hard (very hard) to be there. You yourself admitted to not working harder in undergrad. I came from a relatively poor background and was working multiple jobs in undergrad while commuting 4 hours to university everyday. I went to Osgoode and got into a number of other schools as well. My parents came to Canada with nothing and could not afford to pay for my education even if they had wanted to. Yet you have the luxury of travelling abroad for law school and are calling the people here who worked their asses off to get into Canadian programs elitists...tell me, who is actually privileged - you or me? 

If I did not get into a Canadian law school, my legal aspirations were done. I took out OSAP and a student line of credit at prime interest rate to pay for the whole thing. I depended on bursaries from my law school. While you can take out a line of credit to attend a foreign school, you need a co-signer with good credit (which I did not have) and the interest rates are high. Scotiabank just recently stopped giving out loans to students travelling abroad altogether. 

We need to stop these kinds of nonsense statements in its tracks. I see it a lot from my friends and peers who went abroad for law school. Something they all have in common is that they come from money, are well-connected, and they didn't work as hard as us elitists in undergrad to get into a Canadian school. But, hey, bring out the banners and march on the streets because us elitists are blocking them access to these "high paid jobs" to maintain the status quo. 

I like Deadpool's statement.

I came to Canada when I was 30 years-old. I could not even speak English at all then. Canadian employers just dismissed my first Undergrad degree because the degree came from a non-English speaking country. I had to redo my undergrad from a Canadian university. So, no pains, no gains.

To the OP:

I think that you'd better to consider applying to Windsor's dual JD program; first, you have not decided between the US and Canada. Additionally, you may get in the program with your current stats.  

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4 hours ago, lawstudentmikescott said:

But don’t you think those individuals that are 100% in all aspects of their application are more deserving than those that are not (assuming they’ve achieved their success with honest hard work and grit?). Like my friends that are in medicine now, have been such hard working people since high school and in my opinion are the most deserving people to get into med school. Same can be said for people in law school. You’re essentially saying that the system isn’t fair because it’s not in your favour, and it seems you’re also implying that those that have done really well in all aspects of their application, may be undeserving to go to law school when compared to someone like you. But I don’t think that makes sense. 

I think “the nature of this country” that you speak of, is what creates decent standards for admission to schools, which therefore allows quality professionals to join their industries upon graduating. 

its interesting how everyone's attention is on this sentence that this system is not fair ! yes its not fair and yes I admitted that I didn't tried that hard and things happened along the way that I couldn't control , family , health and other things , I've seen so many people with absolutely amazing stats but couldn't get into medicine or dentistry and they ended up in US same for law . I'm not saying that I can't get into Canadian JD and its system's problem NO !! but they tend to get those with A+ in everything , which in fact I believe that many students have the capabilities  to get into Law school and become a great lawyer but since they have average stats they most likely will be rejected from everywhere except Windsor lets say !! 

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18 minutes ago, Jasminess said:

its interesting how everyone's attention is on this sentence that this system is not fair ! yes its not fair and yes I admitted that I didn't tried that hard and things happened along the way that I couldn't control , family , health and other things , I've seen so many people with absolutely amazing stats but couldn't get into medicine or dentistry and they ended up in US same for law . I'm not saying that I can't get into Canadian JD and its system's problem NO !! but they tend to get those with A+ in everything , which in fact I believe that many students have the capabilities  to get into Law school and become a great lawyer but since they have average stats they most likely will be rejected from everywhere except Windsor lets say !! 

The fact that you are perplexed that they tend to choose students with A+ grades in everything is wild. You suggest that many students have the capabilities to get into law school, but is it not the case that having A+ grades in everything is an attribute to these capabilities that you mention? So based on what you’re saying you would prefer if law schools admit students that do not have A+ grades in everything?  If you have average stats it would seem you lack the capabilities of getting into law school and becoming a great lawyer, no? If you don’t lack said capabilities then your stats would not be average. 😕

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I think the dual JD program at Windsor would suit you better than anything else I can think of at this juncture and based on your posts in this thread. 

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This idea that you will do well in law school, in spite of the fact that you performed exactly average at an average university undergrad program, and average on the lsat, is mindboggling.

I'm going to say something that may be controversial, but I feel confident enough to say it at this point.

Your grasp of english seems poor. Whether that is or isn't because of your immigrant background, I don't know. I'd assume yes, but I personally know many immigrants who never bothered to improve their english to passable, despite living in Canada for a decade, as a teenager.

Law is very demanding, and one of the critical aspects is a solid grasp of language. You don't seem able to write a competent or coherent sentence, and seem to have a very bad grasp of grammar. With this in mind, it would be very difficult for you to succeed in law school, where you're expected to read thousands of pages of case law (often in very old english), and where your grades will at least be somewhat affected by your ability to write and communicate your ideas in time pressure exam conditions.

Whether or not you will get into a Canadian law school, I don't know. I'd be surprised, but I've seen canadian law school admissions which raised both my brows.

Whether you should go to law school is another question, and with the little I've seen of your writing, I personally would tell you not to. At least not yet. Work on your English and get it up to a university level of writing. Then if you still want to go to law school, rewrite the lsat and see where you stand.

Edited by pzabbythesecond
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I sense a lack of seriousness here. To be clear, I don't mean that in a pejorative sense.

OP, ask yourself if you really want to be a lawyer or are just trying to grasp at a status marker. Sometimes people are more interested in the social status that they associate with being a lawyer than actually being a lawyer. It's serious work and requires a level of discipline and responsibility that most people don't have. So if you're more interested in being a lawyer to impress the folks around you, just be aware that there might not be a lot of status to be gained and, if it turns out that you're a bad lawyer, you'll likely see your social status fall.

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2 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

This idea that you will do well in law school, in spite of the fact that you performed exactly average at an average university undergrad program, and average on the lsat, is mindboggling.

I'm going to say something that may be controversial, but I feel confident enough to say it at this point.

Your grasp of english seems poor. Whether that is or isn't because of your immigrant background, I don't know. I'd assume yes, but I personally know many immigrants who never bothered to improve their english to passable, despite living in Canada for a decade, as a teenager.

Law is very demanding, and one of the critical aspects is a solid grasp of language. You don't seem able to write a competent or coherent sentence, and seem to have a very bad grasp of grammar. With this in mind, it would be very difficult for you to succeed in law school, where you're expected to read thousands of pages of case law (often in very old english), and where your grades will at least be somewhat affected by your ability to write and communicate your ideas in time pressure exam conditions.

Whether or not you will get into a Canadian law school, I don't know. I'd be surprised, but I've seen canadian law school admissions which raised both my brows.

Whether you should go to law school is another question, and with the little I've seen of your writing, I personally would tell you not to. At least not yet. Work on your English and get it up to a university level of writing. Then if you still want to go to law school, rewrite the lsat and see where you stand.

LOL OK 😂

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Pzabby isn’t wrong. Lawyers are masters of communication.  Honing this skill will only help you. 

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1 hour ago, Jasminess said:

LOL OK 😂

I'll put this as simply as I can. Your writing here, your overall approach to communication, the very logic that underpins the ideas you've expressed...all of it is very sloppy. At the best interpretation, it's sloppy because you can't be bothered making it not sloppy. At the worst interpretation, it's the best you can do. But taking the best interpretation, for a moment, what are you doing here? You're engaging with law students and lawyers who are actually giving you free and meaningful advice, but it isn't worth your time and bother to even try communicating properly. You tell yourself "I could do it right if I wanted to, but it isn't worth it." You tell yourself "I'll save my effort for when it really matters." You tell yourself that you'll be awesome at all this stuff when you start to really try. Okay. When will that be, exactly?

You have a bad attitude, and I'm giving you advice in a moderately mean way. But it's still sincere advice based in extensive experience. If you are serious about pursuing a career in law, or really any sort of professional endeavor where you are implicitly in competition at all times with other capable, motivated people, you have to stop telling yourself that you'll try when it's worth it, and that when you finally bother you'll just be awesome because that's what you really are. That bad attitude is what's brought you to the situation you're already in - complaining about how the world won't give you the chances your natural abilities deserve, even though you've pissed away every opportunity to date to demonstrate the abilities you seem to believe you have.

Yeah. You deserve the criticism you're receiving here. And you can benefit from it too, if you can only restrain your entirely unjustified ego long enough to realize that the world will never, ever treat you as talented and capable only because you feel that you are. You need to start doing things well - all the time, and simply because that's how you do things - in order to get to where you want to be. Seriously. It's the only way.

I know it seems like we're picking on you. And I won't pretend I'm not enjoying kicking you a bit, with this advice. But it's serious advice. Lawyers are professional communicators. Language is our most fundamental tool. A professional athlete wouldn't do things wrong all the time, not caring at all about how they play the game they claim will be their livelihood, and say "I'll be great when it matters." You shouldn't be doing that either. And the fact that you think it's a big old joke that lawyers with lots of years under their belts are telling you this, but you know better...that's your problem, right there.

Good luck.

Edited by Diplock
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12 hours ago, Jasminess said:

Everyone knows how Canadian schools are , especially for medicine , dentistry and law . They don't want everybody to get in  and take over the market and $$$ , so what they do is they want you to be 100% in every aspect , like school , work , extra curricular activities and so on AND they consider less than %10 of applicants that are not 3.5+ GPA , obviously what ever I go through right now its my fault , I should've studied harder in my undergrad .. but other than my side its the nature of this country and their education/work  system that is connection based in most cases ( High paid jobs ) and certain people with certain backgrounds can take over on these high demand degrees/jobs which everyone knows but they pretend it doesn't exist ;) anyways thank you so much , I'll work on other parts of my application and try to do really well on the LSAT too and we'll see how it goes 

 honestly all you have to do to get into law school is get good marks and a good lsat. Its not based around who you know.. its not a conspiracy to keep you down, its just there are literally two criteria that generally dictate your experience when applying to Canadian law schools, because believe it or not, most peoples' EC's and LOR's are largely the same anyways. its really confusing to me that you seem perplexed about or resistant to the fact that people who are "100% in every aspect" are much more attractive candidates than the applicant with the average LSAT or GPA. that's not confusing or surprising....at all. 

ps. they don't want everyone to get in to programs like medicine, law, and dentistry because NOT EVERYONE is capable of providing a high level of competency to their clients in these fields where things have very real consequences if services are provided inadequately. So far the best way we seem to have of separating people with the ability and skills is differentiating among GPA's and LSAT scores. 

I do understand your desire to get in, and maybe you do have a chance but I have a lot of friends who failed to get into medicine but instead of acknowledging that their choices had something to do with why they didn't get in, some type of inner defence mechanism kicked in where they made up a narrative like yours. Maybe to protect themselves from facing that fact so I just had to say this and get it off my chest. 

Edited by bigfudge2017

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21 hours ago, Jasminess said:

Thank you so much 😊 I would definitely consider that to boost up my GPA

If your GPA is already 3.0, you could probably even do just a half year of undergrad if you want to save money/time. I think your LSAT is acceptable, but if you want a strong application I'd recommend a tutor to help you get over 160.

 

Edit: After reading through all the other comments, yikes all around. Do some soul searching to really decide if this is right for you. If you are really confused, ask people in your life who know you well.

Edited by wunderwoman
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Leaving aside the other issues in this thread, which is a lot to leave aside, I'd like to point out that a 3.0 GPA and 155 lsat isn't as close to admissibility to Canadian schools as some here seem to want to believe and suggest. It isn't necessarily a case of "give up and go overseas if you're determined enough, because that's your only hope" either. But some of the optimism here has been, in my opinion, over-stated. OP is, if anything, more realistic than many people posting here, on that point. 

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Thanks to everyone who replied with useful comments , I really appreciate it . Btw I don't have good stats and most likely won't be able to do my JD in Canada which is fine  and I know it , and YES this system is unfair not because they don't let me study law lol I've seen so many smart and talented students who couldn't  get into their program of choice and they had to move somewhere else , I have my reasons behind what I say  .. I posted here so that I can hear your opinions but whenever someone writes something controversial everyone's focusing on that instead of the actual question/topic !! btw somebody wrote that your english is not good or sth like that , just letting you know I was born and raised here 😃

Goodluck 

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9 minutes ago, Jasminess said:

btw somebody wrote that your english is not good or sth like that , just letting you know I was born and raised here 😃

I don't mean this is an insult, but inevitably it will come off like that. You need to work on your English as soon as possible. I can't see how you will carry on any sort of professional job with your demonstrated level of writing. If your speaking and/or reading comprehension is similar, then even more so.

Seriously. Go take English classes. 

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48 minutes ago, Jasminess said:

Thanks to everyone who replied with useful comments , I really appreciate it . Btw I don't have good stats and most likely won't be able to do my JD in Canada which is fine  and I know it , and YES this system is unfair not because they don't let me study law lol I've seen so many smart and talented students who couldn't  get into their program of choice and they had to move somewhere else , I have my reasons behind what I say  .. I posted here so that I can hear your opinions but whenever someone writes something controversial everyone's focusing on that instead of the actual question/topic !! btw somebody wrote that your english is not good or sth like that , just letting you know I was born and raised here 😃

Goodluck 

The fact that you were born and raised here isn't evidence that your English is good. It's evidence that you have even less excuse that your English is bad. Seriously. We're not kidding about this. It's a real problem you need to address.

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1 hour ago, Jasminess said:

and YES this system is unfair not because they don't let me study law lol I've seen so many smart and talented students who couldn't  get into their program of choice and they had to move somewhere else

If anything admissions here are extremely fair, being mostly merit-based and not having affirmative action policies like in the US.  Contrary to your experience all the 'objectively' smart and talented students that I've met (i.e. 85+ GPA, high LSAT/MCAT scores) have gotten in to their program of choice, since according to medical/law schools here these are exactly the type of applicants they are looking for.  Maybe the 'many smart and talented students' that you know are not as smart and talented as you make them out to be.

Echoing what others have already said, if you want to get into law school here you need to work hard and stop irresponsibly blaming the system.

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1 hour ago, Jasminess said:

Thanks to everyone who replied with useful comments , I really appreciate it . Btw I don't have good stats and most likely won't be able to do my JD in Canada which is fine  and I know it , and YES this system is unfair not because they don't let me study law lol I've seen so many smart and talented students who couldn't  get into their program of choice and they had to move somewhere else , I have my reasons behind what I say  .. I posted here so that I can hear your opinions but whenever someone writes something controversial everyone's focusing on that instead of the actual question/topic !! btw somebody wrote that your english is not good or sth like that , just letting you know I was born and raised here 😃

Goodluck 

The current system for admitting law students is not unfair just because they are admitting students who worked harder than you to get at where they are now so you need to get that mentality out of your head. I’m sure you are right about students who were rejected with good stats, I was one of them. I applied to Osgoode with stats above both of their medians but ended up getting waitlisted and ultimately not admitted as I was forced to accept another school by a certain deadline. Based on the feedback I got, I had completely botched my personal statement and have come to realize that I got punished by my own irresponsibility and I am 100% certain that your “high stat” friends were rejected because there was something wrong with a portion of their application that had nothing to do with their stats. It’s not the SYSTEM that’s the problem, it’s YOU. As I said before, you need to get that mentality out of your head and follow the advice that people have taken time out of their day to provide you on this thread because it’s the best advice you’re going to get. I’m a first generation Canadian with immigrant parents just like yourself and got where I am today because I worked my ass off not because I played the “system”, so don’t make excuses for why you can’t get admitted when you know it’s because your stats are not good enough.

What is your L2 (last two years) or B2 (best 2 years) GPA? If they are below an A-, would you be willing to take an extra year or two of undergraduate courses to bump it up and try for L2/B2 schools like Western and Queens? People on this thread are right in terms of your grasp of the English language and the fact that you managed to pull off a 155 LSAT score (which is still below average in terms of admission standards) with that in mind is surprising. Please take the time to improve your English, your grades, and your LSAT score because these 3 are strong predictors of how well you will do in law school.  

None of us are here to ridicule you, we give you advice because we care. If we didn’t care, then we wouldn’t take time out of our day to try and assist you. I can assure you that if you take the advice on this thread seriously and realize that it’s YOU who needs improvement, then your chances of getting into law school in the future will increase to a great extent. Good luck. 

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