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Ghalm

Bay street articling salary increases?

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1 hour ago, beyondsection17 said:

I don't work in biglaw so I could be wrong - but to me, first year associates in biglaw seem pretty fungible. Also,  every year there seems to be a bunch of unemployed first years floating around who didn't get hired back at their biglaw jobs, who I'm sure would all be thrilled to get a job at [firm name redacted]. I don't know that it would be too difficult to replace these students. But it's unlikely, you're right.

who says fungible XD lmao

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1 hour ago, beyondsection17 said:

I don't work in biglaw so I could be wrong - but to me, first year associates in biglaw seem pretty fungible. Also,  every year there seems to be a bunch of unemployed first years floating around who didn't get hired back at their biglaw jobs, who I'm sure would all be thrilled to get a job at [firm name redacted]. I don't know that it would be too difficult to replace these students. But it's unlikely, you're right.

Most first year associates are fungible in terms of skill but for a big firm, you've spent possibly 2-4 months of summer time and 10 months of articling training and getting to know your students. By the time you've hired them back, you have a good sense as to where they'd fit, they've built relationships within the firm, they know how it operates, etc.

Hiring the cast offs from all the other firms means not only are you not getting your top choices, you're getting the people other firms did not want to hire (whether for good reasons or bad reasons), who you don't know, have never met, and suddenly have to integrate and train with the firm.

Yes it's possible to easily hire enough bodies to physically make up for losing an entire articling class worth of associates, but it's not really an ideal situation in any way.

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44 minutes ago, Smorr53 said:

Agreed ! I've just never seen/ heard it used. Kinda want to make a thread now just for cool words. 

I'm pretty sure some people pursue a career in law for, inter alia, the cool words. :rolleyes:

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Personally, if I encountered a student who stood up for themselves and others on a point of principle, I'd have more respect for them and would rate them more highly as a potentially good lawyer. After all, if you can't advocate for yourself, how will you be able to advocate for others? 

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On 7/5/2019 at 11:13 PM, erinl2 said:

Students frequently have an inflated sense of their value to an employer. This thread is no exception. ;)

Considering most partners' salaries on Bay street, I think we have a fine judgment of our value to employers.

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58 minutes ago, georgecostanzajr said:

Considering most partners' salaries on Bay street, I think we have a fine judgment of our value to employers.

Don't steal the thunder of associates, friendo. Note that partners don't technically have salaries, they are owners, and believe me when I say its not really the students that are contributing to the bottom line. Student time is often a write-off, if billed at all. Associates get paid something like 15-20% of what they bill out if they make target, before bonus.

 

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Would Fasken's shift to 1800 cause the others settled at 1700 to move to 1800? Heard Fasken didnt cut bar benefits though they do not give tuition bonus i think

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19 minutes ago, Ghalm said:

Would Fasken's shift to 1800 cause the others settled at 1700 to move to 1800? Heard Fasken didnt cut bar benefits though they do not give tuition bonus i think

Well that would Mean there is no difference in pay. A tuition bonus of $4000 =  $100 extra per week x 40 weeks of articling. It’s basically the same thing 

thats why students have to look at the totality of the numbers 

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6 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

Well that would Mean there is no difference in pay. A tuition bonus of $4000 =  $100 extra per week x 40 weeks of articling. It’s basically the same thing 

thats why students have to look at the totality of the numbers 

don't think fasken cut benefits at all

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3 hours ago, Rashabon said:

Associates get paid something like 15-20% of what they bill out if they make target, before bonus.

 

do you have a source for this? heard its closer to 50% for jr associates and increases with years of call

 

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43 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

Well that would Mean there is no difference in pay. A tuition bonus of $4000 =  $100 extra per week x 40 weeks of articling. It’s basically the same thing 

thats why students have to look at the totality of the numbers 

Not all firms pay a tuition bonus, though they pay bar benefits. If those firms that do not pay a tuition bonus raise to 1800, it wouldn't it seem odd, for optics at least, for those firms that pay a tuition bonus to stay at 1700. 

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52 minutes ago, katurian said:

do you have a source for this? heard its closer to 50% for jr associates and increases with years of call

 

I don't see how that could be possible. 

$400/hr x 1800 hr target = $720,000.

 

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8 minutes ago, easttowest said:

I don't see how that could be possible. 

$400/hr x 1800 hr target = $720,000.

 

Jr associates get billed at 800 dollars an hour?

Christ. Corporations have too much money. Raise corporate taxes to 90 percent immediately.

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10 hours ago, katurian said:

do you have a source for this? heard its closer to 50% for jr associates and increases with years of call

 

Definitely not. 

Average billable rate on Bay for a junior associate (i.e. a first year) is somewhere between $300-$370 

Targets are usually between 1500 ("lifestyle firms") and 1900hrs per year. Even on the lower end that would be $450K billed per year (at $300/hr for 1500 hrs). First year associate salary on Bay is usually between $100K-$110K (not everyone followed the McCarthy's increase). So, on the lower end it adds up to about 25%. On the higher end ($370/hr for 1900) it's 15%. 

And remember - many associates bill over target, and most bonuses cap out at 30% of your base salary so that percentage can tend to get smaller and smaller as you bill more (*sniffle - us Bay street lawyers are just so hard done by...) 

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I heard that Fasken never previously paid the tuition bonus, so going to 1800 was impressive for them since it means, in effect, the students are now getting the benefit of the bonus through the higher salary. 

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16 hours ago, Rashabon said:

Don't steal the thunder of associates, friendo. Note that partners don't technically have salaries, they are owners, and believe me when I say its not really the students that are contributing to the bottom line. Student time is often a write-off, if billed at all. Associates get paid something like 15-20% of what they bill out if they make target, before bonus.

 

Yes, but students are an investment for the future since they become those associates that are profitable for the firm. Also, students are not entirely worthless. They're definitely not as valuable as associates, but they still do a ton of grunt work that would otherwise need to be done by someone else.

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