Jump to content
Yabbie

How competitive was the 2019 cycle?

Recommended Posts

On 6/14/2019 at 5:45 PM, SpaceLawyer said:

So is it just going to get worse from now on? I don't know what else I can do with a 3.7 CGPA and 155 LSAT, sure I can retake the LSAT and get to to a 158 but was that ever going to really make the difference with thousands of applicants each cycle. 

Yes? I'm not even sure what you mean by this post. A 158 is much more competitive than a 155. A 160 will almost certainly get you in somewhere. It is in no way futile for you to try and get a higher LSAT.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

Yes? I'm not even sure what you mean by this post. A 158 is much more competitive than a 155. A 160 will almost certainly get you in somewhere. It is in no way futile for you to try and get a higher LSAT.

Thanks for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2019 at 7:29 PM, SpaceLawyer said:

After having both my parents die during my undergrad, keeping a 3.7 out of 4.0 GPA having a 4.0 Masters with two scholarships participating in every EC i could in university, and having 7 years of work experience. Yeah I'm a bit salty my 155 is apparently the issue. Especially when I applied in access.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, that's really something that no one should have to go through and I commend you for fighting through that.

However, don't feel like you're entitled to get into a university because you have higher stats than someone (though I understand your frustration). Law school acceptances are heavily number-based but there is a "soft" element to it as well. You're going to have to take a good  hard look at your application package and see what needs changing, where your weaknesses are, and how you're going to MAKE a school accept you next cycle. Your stats are stellar, so keep your chin up and take a critical look at what went wrong this year. Best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Newfoundlaw said:

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, that's really something that no one should have to go through and I commend you for fighting through that.

However, don't feel like you're entitled to get into a university because you have higher stats than someone (though I understand your frustration). Law school acceptances are heavily number-based but there is a "soft" element to it as well. You're going to have to take a good  hard look at your application package and see what needs changing, where your weaknesses are, and how you're going to MAKE a school accept you next cycle. Your stats are stellar, so keep your chin up and take a critical look at what went wrong this year. Best of luck.

Look I've said this in multiple other posts. I absolutely do not feel entitled to this, at all, and I honestly am happy for those individuals. I was just venting my frustrations after being an idiot and only applying to one school last year to get waitlisted and reapply with better stats to only get rejected, then this year applying to a small number and evidently not the ones I should have applied to.

Overcoming the death of my parents, keeping a good CGPA and overcoming my LSAT struggles became a huge part of my identity. I don't come from a middle class family and every year I wait the costs of going just going up and it really takes away from that excitement aspect of getting accepted.

I'm still reapplying and I've already emailed all the schools I applied to why i was rejected and literally one response was you were just not the type of candidate we were looking for this year, whatever the hell that means.

Like I'm not trying to sound snarky but I don't need the pep talk and while I appreciate it. I know the drill. It's just going to be shit being 4 years behind everyone else in this market. 

I really do appreciate it. I'm just beyond frustrated.

Edited by SpaceLawyer
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, SpaceLawyer said:

Look I've said this in multiple other posts. I absolutely do not feel entitled to this, at all, and I honestly am happy for those individuals. I was just venting my frustrations after being an idiot and only applying to one school last year to get waitlisted and reapply with better stats to only get rejected, then this year applying to a small number and evidently not the ones I should have applied to.

Overcoming the death of my parents, keeping a good CGPA and overcoming my LSAT struggles became a huge part of my identity. I don't come from a middle class family and every year I wait the costs of going just going up and it really takes away from that excitement aspect of getting accepted.

I'm still reapplying and I've already emailed all the schools I applied to why i was rejected and literally one response was you were just not the type of candidate we were looking for this year, whatever the hell that means.

Like I'm not trying to sound snarky but I don't need the pep talk and while I appreciate it. I know the drill. It's just going to be shit being 4 years behind everyone else in this market. 

I really do appreciate it. I'm just beyond frustrated.

I'm sorry about your situation. If you don't get in this year, my two cents would be to apply broadly and retake the LSAT to get a higher score. Lately the access category seems pretty competitive and not so different than regular. If you haven't done so, have 3-4 people read and edit your PS. I found some reviewers just said it was fine and moved on but others were super critical which I really appreciated. Waiting another year would suck but if this is the career you want, there's no other choice. Vent and move on. The sooner you get it out of your system, the better you'll position yourself should you need to reapply.

Edit: I also struggled with the LSAT but managed to score decently after months of studying and two takes. If you have questions on what worked for me, PM me.

Edited by Aschenbach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Aschenbach said:

I'm sorry about your situation. If you don't get in this year, my two cents would be to apply broadly and retake the LSAT to get a higher score. Lately the access category seems pretty competitive and not so different than regular. If you haven't done so, have 3-4 people read and edit your PS. I found some reviewers just said it was fine and moved on but others were super critical which I really appreciated. Waiting another year would suck but if this is the career you want, there's no other choice. Vent and move on. The sooner you get it out of your system, the better you'll position yourself should you need to reapply.

I actually had my Dean and multiple professors read it and were extremely pleased and headed their advice when they gave it. Trust me I didn't just apply with no research I took every step I could take. I wouldn't be this frustrated if I hadn't taken every step available. Like I've said, I know there is no other choice.

I'm absolutely counting on reapplying, Windsor has had me referred to admissions since early March and I can't see anything positive coming from that, I've called, emailed and they just say it's still under review.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Aschenbach said:

I'm sorry about your situation. If you don't get in this year, my two cents would be to apply broadly and retake the LSAT to get a higher score. Lately the access category seems pretty competitive and not so different than regular. If you haven't done so, have 3-4 people read and edit your PS. I found some reviewers just said it was fine and moved on but others were super critical which I really appreciated. Waiting another year would suck but if this is the career you want, there's no other choice. Vent and move on. The sooner you get it out of your system, the better you'll position yourself should you need to reapply.

Its also the fact I got accepted into U.S law schools and a good PhD program but my law school just apparently fell short. it's just the fact If I went that route would never be coming back to Canada and I love it here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, access isn't just a lower stats Your access claim must be demonstrably connected to the lower stats, and the rest of your application must show that you are a great candidate despite not meeting their typical admission standards. 

I took a quick look at your post history and it seems like your access claim is dealing with the terrible experience of losing your parents during undergrad (I'm sorry, and congratulations on managing a 3.7 through that). h

The thing is though, that's a legit access claim for a semester (or more) of low marks...but your GPA isn't your low stat, it's your LSAT. And they'd probably still want to see some evidence you could get high grades (before and/or after a period of low grades). 

If your grief affected your LSAT study/prep, that's understandable, but why wouldn't an adcom just expect you to take it again and prove you can do better now to meet their typical expectations? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I don't say this to be negative to you specifically, I just don't like perpetuating the myth that access is "deal with something bad" = lower admissions requirements. There has to be a logical connection. 

Just work on your LSAT and apply more broadly. 

Also, there's nothing wrong with being a few years "behind". A lot of strong students with great jobs are a bit older than the K-JD and consider it a huge benefit. I do! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, feraenaturae said:

And I don't say this to be negative to you specifically, I just don't like perpetuating the myth that access is "deal with something bad" = lower admissions requirements. There has to be a logical connection. 

Just work on your LSAT and apply more broadly. 

Also, there's nothing wrong with being a few years "behind". A lot of strong students with great jobs are a bit older than the K-JD and consider it a huge benefit. I do! 

I mean my dad died during exams of my first semester of my first year and my mother died in my third year during exams. It was a pretty horrible undergraduate experience. 

My first LSAT was 150, which I wrote 3 months after my mother passed then I went to a 155. Writing it a third time will probably get me to a 158ish because im going to have roughly 3 months to study from now to September.

So yes I know it's the LSAT. The whole point was to negate that first shit LSAT, it's also why I'm abit frustrated when I see substantially lower LSATs getting accepted because yeah a 155 isn't the best but that paired with a 3.7 GPA after what I went through seemed like it should have meant something. 

Also I understand you're not trying to be negative specifically towards me but I never said that I wanted lower admission I applied access to address my first low LSAT.

And yes, there absolutely is everything wrong with being behind. It's not about being old during school, I don't care about that, it's the fact the Canadian legal market is getting oversaturated every year, and I'd rather not be 170k in debt and have to wait 3 years just to article.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Queen's is the only Canadian school that officially publishes access category averages (3.68 B2, 160 LSAT), and they're not that much lower than the regular category averages (3.73 B2, 162 LSAT). This report is unofficial, but it was a similar story at UBC in 2013 (78% / 160 LSAT discretionary vs 83% / 166 LSAT regular). 

I think it can be easy to underestimate the access category on this forum because it's impossible to know who you're competing against. Maybe those other applicants went through similarly challenging circumstances, but had higher stats on top of that. 

Edited by Tagger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Tagger said:

Queen's is the only Canadian school that officially publishes access category averages (3.68 B2, 160 LSAT), and they're not that much lower than the regular category averages (3.73 B2, 162 LSAT). This report is unofficial, but it was a similar story at UBC in 2013 (78% / 160 LSAT discretionary vs 83% / 166 LSAT regular). 

I think it can be easy to underestimate the access category on this forum because it's impossible to know who you're competing against. Maybe those other applicants went through similarly challenging circumstances, but had higher stats on top of that. 

Maybe, that's why I'm not demonizing them by any means, i generally am happy for them, nor do I feel entitled, I just wish I was part of the ones accepted.

It was just hard seeing the stats for the entire 8 months and thinking it was a good sign I was going to get in but that's on me.

Again, I'm just bitching about not getting in, I'm not ragging on anyone specifically, I just don't understand what I can do more other than rewrite the LSAT.

I mean one of the schools literally responded I just wasn't the type of candidate they wanted and didn't even explain what that meant they just said it was a different year and that next year would be better. That's what makes this frustrating because I can't believe it would solely be my LSAT that ruined my application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SpaceLawyer said:

That's what makes this frustrating because I can't believe it would solely be my LSAT that ruined my application.

It could be the LSAT or it could be something else, but there's no way you would know and it sounds like the schools aren't giving you much clarity either. From what you're telling us, the only thing you can control and improve on at this point is the LSAT. So why worry about things you can't change? Focus on the one thing that looks like is holding you back and which you can actually do something about: your LSAT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Aschenbach said:

It could be the LSAT or it could be something else, but there's no way you would know and it sounds like the schools aren't giving you much clarity either. From what you're telling us, the only thing you can control and improve on at this point is the LSAT. So why worry about things you can't change? Focus on the one thing that looks like is holding you back and which you can actually do something about: your LSAT.

Like I've said a few times. I am. I already have those god foresaken Bibles and the trainer out. Unless Windsor pulls a hail mary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of curiosity sake, what is the total applicants to seats ratio for Canadian law schools across the board? Something like 1 seat for every 3 applicants Im assuming?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Yabbie said:

Out of curiosity sake, what is the total applicants to seats ratio for Canadian law schools across the board? Something like 1 seat for every 3 applicants Im assuming?

No one would know the answer to this.  Individual schools publish information on the number of applicants versus the number of students.  However, without knowing how many schools each applicant applied to, there is no way of knowing the overall ratio of applicants to places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

23 minutes ago, Yabbie said:

Out of curiosity sake, what is the total applicants to seats ratio for Canadian law schools across the board? Something like 1 seat for every 3 applicants Im assuming?

I could’ve be wrong but I thought it was about 10% of applicants ex) usask has 1200 applicants approx. and accepts 126. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think thats applications per seat. That's somewhat misleading because many applicants send out 7+ applications, then there are more offers than seats etc. Id be interested in knowing how many applicants applied to law school in Canada this year, compared to seats in Canadian law schools. That will give a rough idea as to how competitive the cycle was. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I could be wrong but it seems nationally the ratio of English JD applicants to the respective seats may be around 2.5:1, or approx. 40% applicants can be admitted in some of recent years.

The overall applicants is around 6745 per the post below:

On 6/14/2019 at 9:32 PM, Toad said:

https://report.lsac.org/ThreeYearComparison.aspx

You can look at the LSAC three year comparison for total number of applicants/applications in Canada. Applicants are down 1.8% and applications down 4.9% relative to last year. 

I'm not sure why TRU would have a sudden influx of applicants. Was that information from an official source?

The total seats this year is about 2650 per the source of oxford seminars (assuming Lakehead seats 80 and TRU 120).

 

Edited by huskybins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • You just completed your articles in insurance defense and yet claim to have vast knowledge in the field of medical and health law. You've also got an  LLM that focused on 11 different topics unrelated to insurance or civil lit.  But the type of law you are really interested in is IP law.   And you intend to tell employers about your poly marriage?  During interviews I assume?  Only way it could be a red flag is if you told someone unless your last name is Blackmore.  
    • The reason many 1Ls get crushed after grades come out is because they mistakenly carried the "hard work means good grades" mentality into law school. The bolded part of your post is me pointing out that you're making the same mistake. What I think you really need to do is change how you prepare for exams. My advice to you FOLLOW AT YOUR OWN RISK I'm a fellow slow worker. When I prepared for midterms like everyone else, I got the same marks as everyone else. When I prepared for final exams like a slow worker, I beat the curve in 6/7 courses. The only course where I didn't beat the curve was also the only class I made the mistake of not doing the aforementioned. Understand that you can't do all of the assigned work. It may take other people 1 hour to do a 30 page reading while it takes you 4 hours (I personally need to read every word on the page). Doing all of the assigned work is just not feasible for you because its not an efficient use of time. There is absolutely no shame in admitting this or accepting this. Doing all of the assigned work is just one of many different ways to prepare for the exam. You should let my exam grade determine whether your unique method of preparation is right or wrong. Understand that doing all of the assigned work doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing any work or even less work, it just means you should be doing the work that helps you best prepare for the exam. Doing the readings - Your main focus should be to make the most efficient use of your time (i.e. doing the type of work that helps you, as an individual, best prepare for the exam) First, check the syllabus to understand the place of this reading in the class (you'd be surprised how many people overlook the value of the course syllabus). The question here is: what am I reading? What topic is this reading on? How many days will you be dealing with this topic? How many pages is it? Is the topic a standalone topic or one piece of a bigger topic? This will give you a rough idea of how much time and concern you should give to this topic and also generally primes you for the work you need to do. Second, very briefly skim the reading while paying attention to the structure of the reading. Read the headings, intros, conclusions, etc. This will help you understand the skeleton of the reading.  Third, once you understand what you're reading (i.e. after completing the first two steps) your next question is: why am I reading this? Why has the professor assigned this reading? In other words, what does your professor want you, as a student, to get out of this reading for the purposes of their class? To answer these questions, look to course summaries/CANs from upper years who have taken the same course with the same professor.  Fourth, now you know what you're reading and why you're reading it. The question now here is: what does this reading say about that? If you're a person who's comfortable relying on a summary/CAN, then rely on your summaries/CANs to provide answer the answer to this question. If you're a person who's more comfortable doing the reading, then let the summaries/CANs create the signposts of what's important in the reading so you can focus on that and allocate your time effectively.  For example, if you're dealing with the topic of sexual assault in 1L criminal law, then you're probably going to want to read all of Ewanchuk and only focus on the bare essentials in every other case (e.g. R v Chase - only matters because it tells us how to interpret the sexual nature element of the AR; R v Cuerrier - only matters because it tells us when fraud vitiates consent and what L'Heureux Dube and McLachlin say in their respective dissents, respectfully, doesn't matter for the strict purpose of your exam unless your professor cares about policy; R v Mabior - only matters because it tells us when non-disclosure of HIV status vitiates consent/constitutes fraud; R v JA - only matters because it tells us to how interpret consent and, respectfully, Fish's dissent doesn't matter unless your professor cares about policy; etc)  Lectures - The purpose of lectures isn't for the professor to spoon-feed you the material, for you to practice your skills as a typist and copy the lecture verbatim or for you to get your online Christmas shopping done. The purpose of the lecture is for the professor to: Confirm to you that you're on the right track (i.e. you've done the aforementioned Reading stage correctly and understand what the topic is, why you're doing the reading, and that you know what you need to know) Clarify anything in the readings and/or correct any mistakes/things missing from your understanding/notes or the summaries/CANs you've relied on Provide you with their unique perspective/opinion/approach to the topic at hand. You're going to keep this in mind when writing your exam in order to cater to their beliefs, prejudices. For example, if you have a feminist professor, don't argue that sex work should be criminalized on an exam. Present both sides to the argument, and in one sentence say that you support it even if you don't. As a future lawyer, you're going to be arguing a lot of things you don't agree with or believe in for your own personal gain. Might as well start early   Give you any hints about the exam. Professors notice if/when the herd thins out during the school year and some times will be inclined to reward students for attending. There have been multiple times that I've gotten useful hints about exams from a professor simply for being present during a boring lecture in the middle of October Exams - Exam-writing is a skill. Learn it. Read books on how to develop the skill. My recommendation is "Law School Exams: A Guide to Better Grades" by Alex Schimel. Create your own outline. In your 5 to 15 page outline, you should have every piece of the "what you need to know" part of each of your readings. There should be absolutely no superfluous bullshit, fluff or fat on your outline. You've literally condensed the entire course into those 5 to 15 pages. Your casebook, other peoples outlines/CANs, etc were all just tools for you to arrive at your own outline.  Learn your outline cold. I mean cold. This doesn't only mean just memorizing it. You should be able to open up ExamSoft and type out the blackletter law part of your future exam answer on demand and at near-lightning speed. The only class that I actually did this properly for was the one I finished at the top (and despite missing a major issue on the exam) and the other class that I did this, but sort of half-assed, I got an A- despite writing one paragraph for a question worth 33% question because I blanked out. Once you've learned the outline cold, take a few old exam questions and do timed exams on ExamSoft. Your focus is to type out the blackletter law as you've been doing and then actually apply it to the facts. Review your answer by yourself, then with a professor (if you can reach them/they'll allow this) and finally compare against old exam answers. Many people will disagree with this but once you do a few of these timed exams, you'll start to notice repeating patterns in terms of the issues tested, answer structures, etc (there can only be so many and also many professors are creatures of habit). 
    • Had a similar thing happen: What can you tell me about person X? Should I know person X? They mentioned you in their interview... I have no idea who this person is...
×
×
  • Create New...