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Osgoode vs. UBC for social justice

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My partner and I are debating between UBC and Osgoode currently. How would you rate the two in terms of their social justice curricula? Location doesn't matter for us, so it really just comes down to the actual school. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 

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I can't speak to Osgoode, but here is a list of the UBC clinics and course descriptions so you can get an idea of what the school offers:

http://www.allard.ubc.ca/student-resources/jd-academic-services/upper-year-opportunities/clinical-and-externship-programs

http://www.allard.ubc.ca/sites/www.allard.ubc.ca/files/uploads/JD/course_description_report_2018w.pdf

 

I have a lot of friends who did Rise, the Innocence Project, the Indigenous Clinic, and the Criminal Clinic and they all got good work and spoke highly of their placements.

Edited by Starling
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Osgoode has more clinics. But a much higher tuition.

If you want to work in "social justice", then generally it means you can't expect a high salary. So the big part of your decision is costs. If financially you're covered somehow, then osgoode would be a better choice in my opinion because of all its intensives and clinics in those areas of law.

If you're not covered, 100+k of debt at osgoode would severely limit your ability to take on jobs in certain fields as you pay back loans and pay Toronto COL at the same time.

Plus Vancouver is just a billion times nicer as a city. Toronto is slush central in the winter and too hot in the summer, trapped in a concrete jungle paying insane levels of rent.

Vancouver you're paying insane rent too, but at least you live in Vancouver.

I'm biased but I'm even a Torontonian! ;)

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I should add that rent in North York can be incredibly cheap. It's only expensive if you're willing to pay more and live downtown and take the subway to school. Osgoode is also very generous with bursaries so if costs are a concern, I would first explore this before you make a decision.

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11 hours ago, Deadpool said:

I should add that rent in North York can be incredibly cheap. It's only expensive if you're willing to pay more and live downtown and take the subway to school. Osgoode is also very generous with bursaries so if costs are a concern, I would first explore this before you make a decision.

Rent in north York in any area that isn't a transit desert is in no way cheap - not when you add in the added pain that is commuting on the ttc anywhere relevant (assuming no car).

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10 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Rent in north York in any area that isn't a transit desert is in no way cheap - not when you add in the added pain that is commuting on the ttc anywhere relevant (assuming no car).

Compared to the affordable rent of Vancouver? 😂😂

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On 5/18/2019 at 11:11 AM, artsydork said:

Compared to the affordable rent of Vancouver? 😂😂

Im sure the 15k+/year saved helps 

Edited by yeezy

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Agree with @pzabbythesecond re: costs. UBC has large bursaries that will likely drop your costs down into the 5-figure range. Osgoode’s largest bursary won’t even drop you down into the 5-figure range. 

No amount of rent saved by living in North York will make up for the massively higher tuition of Osgoode. Plus you would have to live in North York. No amount of rent savings are worth living in North York. 

Osgoode is rarely the right choice for students, in my opinion. 

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BC's new empty homes tax and real estate slump has also opened up a lot of rental units. From personal and anecdotal experience, it's much easier now than it was 2 years ago to find and negotiate rent. That being said, you're still looking at $1,700-$2,000/month for a 1-bedroom in the city and roughly $800-$1,000 for a room in a shared space.

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10 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Osgoode is rarely the right choice for students, in my opinion. 

When is it the right choice?

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10 minutes ago, Aschenbach said:

BC's new empty homes tax and real estate slump has also opened up a lot of rental units. From personal and anecdotal experience, it's much easier now than it was 2 years ago to find and negotiate rent. That being said, you're still looking at $1,700-$2,000/month for a 1-bedroom in the city and roughly $800-$1,000 for a room in a shared space.

How about a bachelor suite? Finishing up my articles and thinking of making a move to a spot alone.

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13 minutes ago, thedraper said:

When is it the right choice?

If money isn't an issue (by virtue of privilege, or self sacrifice of living rent free with family for 2-3 years) and you're interested in social justice areas of the law which lean heavily to hiring candidates who have demonstrated and practical training in those areas.

I'll let @BlockedQuebecois add more since he goes there, but that's how much I can infer based on what I know.

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32 minutes ago, thedraper said:

When is it the right choice?

  1. People with rich parents who will pay for their education;
  2. Toronto residents who can stay at home and wouldn’t want to leave the province; 
  3. People with significant commitments in the city, such as a partner or child; and
  4. People very interested in NY Biglaw that are too dumb, unilingual, or broke to get into U of T, a T14 US law school, or McGill. 

If there was a reliable way to predict success, I would add some categories (I think going to Osgoode has been a net-benefit for me, and I’m not in those categories). But there isn’t, so that’s it. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
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8 minutes ago, spicyfoodftw said:

How about a bachelor suite? Finishing up my articles and thinking of making a move to a spot alone.

A proper studio apartment in Vancouver will still cost around $1600+. Availability has increased, but prices haven't gone down. 

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47 minutes ago, spicyfoodftw said:

How about a bachelor suite? Finishing up my articles and thinking of making a move to a spot alone.

I would echo @Tagger's estimate of $1,500-$1,600. Price would obviously depend on location, age of building and proximity to transit. Generally, farther east you go, the less expensive it'll be.

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35 minutes ago, Tagger said:

A proper studio apartment in Vancouver will still cost around $1600+. Availability has increased, but prices haven't gone down. 

Argh. I remember when I thought my friend's 1 bedroom suite in Coal Harbour for $1650 was outrageous. 

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40 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:
  1. People with rich parents who will pay for their education;
  2.  Toronto residents who can stay at home and wouldn’t want to leave the province; 
  3.  People with significant commitments in the city, such as a partner or child; and
  4. People very interested in NY Biglaw that are too dumb, unilingual, or broke to get into U of T, a T14 US law school, or McGill. 

 If there was a reliable way to predict success, I would add some categories (I think going to Osgoode has been a net-benefit for me, and I’m not in those categories). But there isn’t, so that’s it. 

For 1., would bursaries help mitigate that?

EDIT: i.e. Do they readily hand out significant bursaries to mitigate it.

Edited by thedraper

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