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31 minutes ago, Mycousinsteve said:

Notice how you’re the one who called me an asshole, that I need to “grow the fuck up” and that I’m ignorant for disagreeing with the position of another? I think you’re the one who needs to grow up and learn to respect the opinions of others. 

My concern with OP is that in general, it’s very fashionable in today’s day and age or overt political correctness to go on about privilege or “white privilege” when in fact that person had to roll up their sleeves big time to get to their position in life. 

I would agree if it was the 20s and 30s, a time when If you were a woman, person of colour, Jewish, or other type of minority, it would have been very difficult to be accepted into university, much less find a position at a prominent law firm which provided a meaningful salary and career path. Then surely having a family connection or being white or having financial means would be an advantage

But it’s 2019 - as long as you work hard, your race or ethnicity or whatever is no longer relevant to your success. 

In terms of being debt free, sure that’s awesome to have a family to support you. But there’s also private and government backed loans so it’s not as if universities have become a place of higher education exclusive to the wealthy. Anyone and everyone can go if you work hard. But to be ashamed that someone has a family who helped them? That’s inspiring and I’m sure we’d all want to do the same for our kids.

I sincerely hope you're more fact driven in your analyses while you work than you are in your views on this. This read like a trumpian account of climate change.

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12 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

And that's why we need a statement of principles - even in 2019!

 

So much for Freedom of Expression though 

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Just now, Mycousinsteve said:

So much for Freedom of Expression though 

:rolling:

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1 hour ago, Diplock said:

What you choose to acknowledge, or not, if your business, and people who shove your face in it at inopportune times are assholes. 

I'll add onto what diplock said, highlighting what I think he very intentionally wrote. That there are times to shove it in people's faces that they're privileged.

There's a difference between walking into an expensive café filled with rich white collar workers and screaming that they're all privileged bastards for merely existing, etc, and calling someone out for a very backhanded comment that they may or may not realize has impacts on others. The sinister thing about privilege is that it's often invisible to the privileged, even well intentioned privileged folk, and fully rampant and visible against disadvantaged folk.

 

Here @Mycousinsteve you're being an oblivious privileged dude. But you're also being an asshole about it. And I'm calling you out on it.

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59 minutes ago, Mycousinsteve said:

In terms of being debt free, sure that’s awesome to have a family to support you. But there’s also private and government backed loans so it’s not as if universities have become a place of higher education exclusive to the wealthy. Anyone and everyone can go if you work hard.

The point is that someone who has 0 in debt and someone who has 50k in debt are starting at two different points in their life. If you don't understand this, then you might be privileged too.

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1 hour ago, Mycousinsteve said:

So you’re saying you didn’t work your ass off to get into university [No], maintain a high GPA [No, and my gpa wasn’t even that high compared to the requirements for other professions], pass the LSAT [No, and you don’t “pass” the LSAT], get into law school [This one I actually did do], maintain good grades in law school [No, law school has yielded far better grades for far less work than undergrad, actually], kill articling interviews [No, if anything I underprepared], work yourself to the grindstone during articling, pass the bar, and now you’re where you are?

I thought lawyers were supposed to get past the whole woe-is-me-law-school-is-the-hardest-thing-in-the-world complex. Why haven’t you? 

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I thought lawyers were supposed to get past the whole woe-is-me-law-school-is-the-hardest-thing-in-the-world complex. Why haven’t you? 

Because his freedom of expression is being challenged! Remember, if consequences occur following a statement, it must mean that his liberties are not being respected.

Getting back on topic, I'm fairly satisfied. My income isn't quite as high as the other posters in this thread, but I'm comfortable, paying off my debts, and have a really nice work-life balance. I just finished a 2 day trial, didn't make a fool of myself, was recently hand-invited to 2 judicial subcommittees as the defence representative, and just figuring out whether I can make it fiscally possible to buy into partnership. All in all, quite pleased especially since this time in 2011 I was "fuck law and lawyering".

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Today I'm satisfied because I can inject this thread right into my veins.

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1 hour ago, Mycousinsteve said:

 

So you’re saying you didn’t work your ass off to get into university, maintain a high GPA, pass the LSAT, get into law school, maintain good grades in law school, kill articling interviews, work yourself to the grindstone during articling, pass the bar, and now you’re where you are?

this whole “white privilege” discussion is total bullshit and nonsense. I don’t understand the guilt people have for being successful. And you shouldn’t be guilty for your parents having worked that hard to provide a good life for you as I’m sure you will for your kids. 

In short, no.  Most of my success is clearly attributable to the genetic/familial lottery, and the notion that I have worked harder than others to get where I am is utterly laughable.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mycousinsteve said:

 

So you’re saying you didn’t work your ass off to get into university, maintain a high GPA, pass the LSAT, get into law school, maintain good grades in law school, kill articling interviews, work yourself to the grindstone during articling, pass the bar, and now you’re where you are?

this whole “white privilege” discussion is total bullshit and nonsense. I don’t understand the guilt people have for being successful. And you shouldn’t be guilty for your parents having worked that hard to provide a good life for you as I’m sure you will for your kids. 

I think your privilege is showing by thinking "working your ass off" results in the same outcome for all people. For my parents, working their ass off meant literally working hard labour for dollars a day while trying to feed their child and persistently applying for refugee status for years until they got accepted. And then when you get where you're going, you work basic jobs (where customers treat you like literal garbage, call you a terrorist, etc) because you spent your young years working and trying to keep your children fed and get them to a better country, and not necessarily expanding your skills. Then your kid goes to college and works their ass off, you can't afford to help them, and they take on loans. As a result, that $100,000 saved from loans probably ensures an earlier retirement or higher quality lifestyle for one party. 

So tell me, if two sets of parents both work their asses off to get to the same place, but one had a huge head start and consequently their children didn't need to take on huge loans and has an easier after-law-school life, what does that arise from if not an inherent privilege or advantage for one party? 

I should specify, I'm not sure where I stand on white privilege, however I believe someone has to be delusional to say that any sort of majority privilege doesn't exist. 

Edited by cigarettes
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2 minutes ago, utmguy said:

In short, no.  Most of my success is clearly attributable to the genetic/familial lottery, and the notion that I have worked harder than others to get where I am is utterly laughable.  

Can you expand on this? Do you mean in terms of looks, connections, brain power?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, wtamow said:

Can you expand on this? Do you mean in terms of looks, connections, brain power?

I am mostly referring to brain power.  This is not a claim that I am intelligent -- simply an acknowledgment that to the extent I am successful it is a result of my inherent aptitudes, not hard work, and to the extent that I have these aptitudes, this is a result of forces outside my control.  (Edit:  Although I do happen to be 6'2 and in decent physical shape, which never hurts... )

I would retract my earlier post.  It's not clear I have white privilege.  I definitely have green privilege though, which whites tend to have more of.  

Edited by utmguy
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1 minute ago, wtamow said:

Can you expand on this? Do you mean in terms of looks, connections, brain power?

I vaguely remember a discussion about Wilt Chamberlain during a philosophy class. While it’s not unjust for gifted athletes to receive wild sums of money since free people willingly pay money to see their talents on display, a lot of luck and random chance goes into being born 7’1” or with Michael Phelps physiology. 

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1 hour ago, Law Girl26 said:

Let's all stop feeding the trolls. 💁‍♀️

Back to the point of this thread. 

I am getting increasingly frustrated by not being able to move up in my current position - there is nowhere for me to go within the organization except to be my boss. Pay is good, work-life balance is (normally okay).

I share your dismissive attitude towards mycousinsteve’s post. But I think that issues of race and privilege could be quite relevant to the question of career satisfaction. Just not in the sense of: “how dare you acknowledge that others may have faced barriers — I built myself in a log cabin without the benefit of human contact!”

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Posted (edited)

Generally, I feel satisfied.

The first couple years of practice have certainly been tumultuous.  I've learned a lot and I think that I'm building a strong reputation and greater confidence in my abilities.  I live a comfortable lifestyle in a very trendy part of town and I can afford to do fun things on a regular basis.  The stress and some of the hours that I pull are negatives, but I feel as though I'm doing important work that matters.  Furthermore, it is challenging work by just about anyone's standards and I regularly feel proud of rising to the occasion and managing a successful practice.  There have certainly been a fair share of dumb mistakes and cringey moments, but I've tried to take it all in stride.

Conan O'Brien once said about comedy that, when it's going well, he'd do it for free.  When it's going poorly, he continued, he'd rather do anything else in the world.  I catch myself thinking the same thing about litigation, but (and this is perhaps for the best), most of the day-to-day stuff falls somewhere comfortably in the middle of those two poles.

 

Edited by WicketStyx
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11 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

I share your dismissive attitude towards mycousinsteve’s post. But I think that issues of race and privilege could be quite relevant to the question of career satisfaction. Just not in the sense of: “how dare you acknowledge that others may have faced barriers — I built myself in a log cabin without the benefit of human contact!”

That’s not at all what I was saying but I thank the perversion of my comments and for you ultimately showing what this thread is about. You’re either on the far left or you have no business being on this thread and having an opinion. 

 

To be successful is akin to being guilty and to having wronged others and let’s all cry about it. 

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It's almost as if "benefiting from privilege" and "working hard" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

Woah.

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1 hour ago, Mycousinsteve said:

So much for Freedom of Expression though 

You're free to express yourself; it's just that, other people are free to express themselves as well.

 

And that may entail calling what you express dumb 

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11 minutes ago, Newfoundlaw said:

You're free to express yourself; it's just that, other people are free to express themselves as well.

 

And that may entail calling what you express dumb 

Let me know how that argument works out for you when drafting pleadings, I would love it if all the clients on the other side of my files had lawyers like you. 

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Just now, Mycousinsteve said:

Let me know how that argument works out for you when drafting pleadings, I would love it if all the clients on the other side of my files had lawyers like you. 

...so you're proposing that only one party (in this scenario being you) in any given exchange has the right to express themselves.

Not to mention that you're alluding to a charter right, and I don't think the charter applies to LawStudents.ca

So before you attempt to insult my intelligence, please come better prepared. And honestly please just stop, you're only making yourself look more and more ignorant at this point

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