Jump to content
Yabbie

TRU vs Leicester fast track

Recommended Posts

Would you ever justify doing a 2-year fast track Leicester degree versus the J.D at TRU? Suppose the end goal was working at one of the big corporate firms in Calgary or Vancouver. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personal Preference. Pros and Cons to both. 

From my experience, Law firms tend to prefer taking on students that graduated from Canadian Law Schools. TRU may be fairly new, but at the end of the day it is a Canadian Law School. However, you will be competing with students from other Canadian Law Schools such as UBC, UAlberta, and UCalgary. I know a lot of people use universities such as UBirmingham, Queen Mary, etc., so demonstrate that they attended a Russel Group University (and compare their law schools to rankings of Canadian Law Schools). 

However, no matter what route you choose, your ability to get an interview and position within a firm will depend on your CV, networking, and interview skills. 

I attended law school in the UK and had no outstanding issues (compared to Canadian Law School  Students) with obtaining a position. I am extremely happy about my decision as I was able to study abroad, travel lots, and even work while in the UK. The concern many people have is the difficulty of fulfilling your NCA requirements once you come back to Canada.  However, you can choose to write the exams or attend a University program (UBC has an LLM program) that will give you an LLM degree and will meet your NCA requirements. With taking this route you will want to ensure you keep on top of deadlines and networking events, as Canadian law students will also be doing the same. 

If your main concern is timing and wanting to fast track, both options would take you roughly the same about of time as you will have to meet your NCA requirements (this time will depend on how quickly/slow you decide to write the exams or if you choose to take a 1 year LLM program) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TRU and don't even hesitate.

Financially it makes sense. Market wise it makes sense. Reputation wise it makes sense. And Leicester doesn't provide you any time savings because of the equivalency requirements.

Don't even look back. Take TRU.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jacq   It isn't a matter of firms tending to prefer Canadian grads, it is that Canadian grads have a distinct advantage in hiring.  Rightly or wrongly, there is a stigma held by many employers against foreign grads, primarily because, for most, it indicates that they were not able to get into a Canadian law school.

The concern about the NCA process isn't, and shouldn't be, the main concern for those thinking about attending a foreign law school. What should be, is securing an articling position. 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jacq said:

Personal Preference. Pros and Cons to both. 

From my experience, Law firms tend to prefer taking on students that graduated from Canadian Law Schools. TRU may be fairly new, but at the end of the day it is a Canadian Law School. However, you will be competing with students from other Canadian Law Schools such as UBC, UAlberta, and UCalgary. I know a lot of people use universities such as UBirmingham, Queen Mary, etc., so demonstrate that they attended a Russel Group University (and compare their law schools to rankings of Canadian Law Schools). 

However, no matter what route you choose, your ability to get an interview and position within a firm will depend on your CV, networking, and interview skills. 

I attended law school in the UK and had no outstanding issues (compared to Canadian Law School  Students) with obtaining a position. I am extremely happy about my decision as I was able to study abroad, travel lots, and even work while in the UK. The concern many people have is the difficulty of fulfilling your NCA requirements once you come back to Canada.  However, you can choose to write the exams or attend a University program (UBC has an LLM program) that will give you an LLM degree and will meet your NCA requirements. With taking this route you will want to ensure you keep on top of deadlines and networking events, as Canadian law students will also be doing the same. 

If your main concern is timing and wanting to fast track, both options would take you roughly the same about of time as you will have to meet your NCA requirements (this time will depend on how quickly/slow you decide to write the exams or if you choose to take a 1 year LLM program) 

OP should take this point with a huge grain of salt.

There is 0 debate go to TRU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, erinl2 said:

@Jacq   It isn't a matter of firms tending to prefer Canadian grads, it is that Canadian grads have a distinct advantage in hiring.  Rightly or wrongly, there is a stigma held by many employers against foreign grads, primarily because, for most, it indicates that they were not able to get into a Canadian law school.

The concern about the NCA process isn't, and shouldn't be, the main concern for those thinking about attending a foreign law school. What should be, is securing an articling position. 

 

Yes, that is what I was trying to explain. And yes, there is a stigma against foreign grads. However, there is that stigma against students who couldn't get into a "better" law school in Canada.

What I was trying to point out is that many students who get into schools such as TRU, Lakehead, etc., have difficulty obtaining big corporate articling positions compared to other Canadian law grads who attend more reputable or higher ranked law schools in Canada. 

From my experience (and from what I have noticed from classmates), students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad were easily able to land articling positions when they returned. (Especially if  they completed an LLM at a more reputable Canadian University (UBC, Osgoode, UofT) to complete the NCA requirements). 

Again, just from what I have noticed and have been told by my undergrad classmates, those who attended TRU and tried to obtain articling positions against students who attended UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc,., had a more difficult time. But as I stated, having an excellent CV, networking, and interview skills is crucial no matter where you go.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jacq said:

Yes, that is what I was trying to explain. And yes, there is a stigma against foreign grads. However, there is that stigma against students who couldn't get into a "better" law school in Canada.

What I was trying to point out is that many students who get into schools such as TRU, Lakehead, etc., have difficulty obtaining big corporate articling positions compared to other Canadian law grads who attend more reputable or higher ranked law schools in Canada. 

From my experience (and from what I have noticed from classmates), students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad were easily able to land articling positions when they returned. (Especially if  they completed an LLM at a more reputable Canadian University (UBC, Osgoode, UofT) to complete the NCA requirements). 

Again, just from what I have noticed and have been told by my undergrad classmates, those who attended TRU and tried to obtain articling positions against students who attended UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc,., had a more difficult time. But as I stated, having an excellent CV, networking, and interview skills is crucial no matter where you go.

I'm willing to put good money that more of the "weaker" Canadian law school grads land corporate firm articling gigs than NCA candidates from "reputable" schools that aren't as competitive as the average Canadian law school.

That's just crazy talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to be rude, but the answer is quite evident.  I'm actually baffled this question is being asked.  I've worked with a number of articling students/new calls who went overseas to do their law degrees.  They all agree they're not on an even playing field in comparison to students who obtained their law degrees in Canada.  They all complain that the money is bad and they always ask me why I've decided to pursue law, given what I see them going through.   

What everyone else is saying on this forum is true.  If you decide to go overseas for your law degree, you will be in for a rough ride.  That being said, I've also worked with two lawyers from the UK who are very successful now.  Albeit, they were born and raised in the UK and came over here AFTER their education.  It's a different story when you're born and raised here, go there, and come back to practice.  I definitely raise one eyebrow.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the most outlandish question I've seen posed in all my years on this Earth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jacq said:

Yes, that is what I was trying to explain. And yes, there is a stigma against foreign grads. However, there is that stigma against students who couldn't get into a "better" law school in Canada.

What I was trying to point out is that many students who get into schools such as TRU, Lakehead, etc., have difficulty obtaining big corporate articling positions compared to other Canadian law grads who attend more reputable or higher ranked law schools in Canada. 

From my experience (and from what I have noticed from classmates), students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad were easily able to land articling positions when they returned. (Especially if  they completed an LLM at a more reputable Canadian University (UBC, Osgoode, UofT) to complete the NCA requirements). 

Again, just from what I have noticed and have been told by my undergrad classmates, those who attended TRU and tried to obtain articling positions against students who attended UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc,., had a more difficult time. But as I stated, having an excellent CV, networking, and interview skills is crucial no matter where you go.

Respectfully, I would disagree with every point you raised here.  From your earlier post, it seems like you went overseas and were able to find a position here which is great and I'm happy for you, but you should know that's certainly not the norm.  The so called stigma of going to a "weaker" Canadian law school never impacted me or anyone that I know from my school.  Many of these grads from the "weak" Canadian school clerked or articled with the big corporate firms upon graduation and are doing just fine now as lawyers.  

It might be your experience that all of your classmates found articling positions easily, but there are threads upon threads on this forum of students going overseas and really struggling to find positions upon their return.  I've also met quite a few of these students over this past year who reported their struggles to find legal jobs.  Many stated that they had to work as assistants or secretaries for a few years before they could even find an articling job.  And those are the lucky ones.

I can tell you for a fact that my organization would simply trash a resume from a UK grad without even reading it and I know we're not the only ones.  I have never met a lawyer who looked up "reputable" law schools overseas.  Unless it's Oxford or Cambridge, no one is going to be impressed that some no name law school they've never heard of is on some random list of good law schools.  Now it's not all doom and gloom, but that's the stigma that overseas students often face.  

TRU grads seem to be doing fine with getting articles from everything I've seen and heard.  I was also one of them 4 years ago.  Now I'm sure there are a few dinosaurs out there who still wouldn't consider a TRU grad, but the vast majority of lawyers that I know will take a student from any Canadian law school seriously if they've got good marks and an interesting CV.  If working in big law is your metric for being successful, then TRU grads seem to be doing fine as there's tons of them working in those kinds of shops, particularly in Vancouver. 

EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to be a dick, but more wanted to warn a poor 0L who doesn't know any better that there is not an ounce of truth to the statement of going to a reputable overseas law school = easily finding an articling position.

Edited by Stark
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jacq said:

Yes, that is what I was trying to explain. And yes, there is a stigma against foreign grads. However, there is that stigma against students who couldn't get into a "better" law school in Canada.

What I was trying to point out is that many students who get into schools such as TRU, Lakehead, etc., have difficulty obtaining big corporate articling positions compared to other Canadian law grads who attend more reputable or higher ranked law schools in Canada. 

From my experience (and from what I have noticed from classmates), students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad were easily able to land articling positions when they returned. (Especially if  they completed an LLM at a more reputable Canadian University (UBC, Osgoode, UofT) to complete the NCA requirements). 

Again, just from what I have noticed and have been told by my undergrad classmates, those who attended TRU and tried to obtain articling positions against students who attended UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc,., had a more difficult time. But as I stated, having an excellent CV, networking, and interview skills is crucial no matter where you go.

"Students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad?" How many of those are there really? Isn't this just a story people tell themselves to feel better about themselves because they're feeling the stigma? What are you calling a "reputable" law school? (Very few employers in Canada know or care what a "Russel Group school" is.) And are the foreign graduates "easily" landing articling positions because the position is with their dad, or mom, or uncle or family friend or similar? Or are these bottom of the barrel, unpaid or low-paying articling positions with no hireback?

I don't think TRU resumes go automatically into the garbage as Leicester, Bond, Cooley etc resumes do at many firms. OP, it's not even a question - go to TRU. If you have to go to Leicester and then come back and do a so-called "LLM", it is not going to be cheaper or faster than TRU and you're still going to face more stigma even with your "LLM."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, you have been accepted to TRU. Go and don’t look back. 

If you really want to see more of the world, plan to travel in your first year summer to get it out of your system. Do not for God’s sake conflate your professional education with a travel opportunity disguised as an education. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, providence said:

"Students who decided to decline their Canadian Law School admission offers to attend reputable law schools abroad?" How many of those are there really? Isn't this just a story people tell themselves to feel better about themselves because they're feeling the stigma? What are you calling a "reputable" law school? (Very few employers in Canada know or care what a "Russel Group school" is.) And are the foreign graduates "easily" landing articling positions because the position is with their dad, or mom, or uncle or family friend or similar? Or are these bottom of the barrel, unpaid or low-paying articling positions with no hireback?

I don't think TRU resumes go automatically into the garbage as Leicester, Bond, Cooley etc resumes do at many firms. OP, it's not even a question - go to TRU. If you have to go to Leicester and then come back and do a so-called "LLM", it is not going to be cheaper or faster than TRU and you're still going to face more stigma even with your "LLM."

@Yabbie asked about options, and I elaborated on my personal experience. I do not know any lawyers or have a direct "in" to a firm. The positions offered are not unpaid or low paying or "bottom of the barrel". Also, I spent less money obtaining my LLB and LLM than some of the JD programs in Canada (I'm comparing to Ontario Tuition)

I never said TRU resumes go into the garbage or do I think that TRU is a terrible option. Of course, as I stated in my first post, attending a Canadian Law School will always give you an advantage. I simply was comparing options, and how if the goal is Big Corporate, there will be challenges competing against students who attended schools such as UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc., However, it appears in this thread that many attended Canadian Law Schools and I, who did not, just wanted to share my personal experience and the experiences I have followed from classmates. No need to get defensive. Just offering a second options. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jacq said:

@Yabbie asked about options, and I elaborated on my personal experience. I do not know any lawyers or have a direct "in" to a firm. The positions offered are not unpaid or low paying or "bottom of the barrel". Also, I spent less money obtaining my LLB and LLM than some of the JD programs in Canada (I'm comparing to Ontario Tuition)

I never said TRU resumes go into the garbage or do I think that TRU is a terrible option. Of course, as I stated in my first post, attending a Canadian Law School will always give you an advantage. I simply was comparing options, and how if the goal is Big Corporate, there will be challenges competing against students who attended schools such as UBC, UCalgary, UAlberta, etc., However, it appears in this thread that many attended Canadian Law Schools and I, who did not, just wanted to share my personal experience and the experiences I have followed from classmates. No need to get defensive. Just offering a second options. 

Forgetting the fact that many students don't want to go the big corporate route, I'm still not sure what you're trying to argue here.  Even if we accept that grads from the holistic schools aren't as competitive as grads from the more stats based schools, ultimately any Canadian law school grad will have less challenges getting any sort of job than a UK grad.  That's just common sense.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stark said:

Forgetting the fact that many students don't want to go the big corporate route, I'm still not sure what you're trying to argue here.  Even if we accept that grads from the holistic schools aren't as competitive as grads from the more stats based schools, ultimately any Canadian law school grad will have less challenges getting any sort of job than a UK grad.  That's just common sense.  

You are 100% correct and I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone in this thread). I'm not arguing that @Yabbie should not attend a Canadian Law School, I am just pointing out that there are alternative options that are available that may benefit them in the end, especially if the end goal is big corporate. But as you and I have both mentioned in previous posts, staying in Canada for Law School will always give you an advantage compared to those who don't and instead choose to write their NCAs when applying to firms. 

I think everyone took my post as I am recommending to choose abroad studies over Canada. @Yabbie asked if someone could justify choosing to go abroad instead of attending TRU. I simply provided some justifications for the UK route by elaborating on my experience--but I am not saying that @Yabbie should pick this route over TRU...just that there are pros and cons to both options with their end goal. Since it appears most people in this thread have heard of the stigma, I thought I would provide my experience as I have PERSONALLY not found that stigma to be true (and this is applying to big corporate firms to medium sized firms in the Toronto and GTA, competing against mainly UofT, Queens, Western, and Osgoode students). 

 

 

Edited by Jacq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jacq said:

You are 100% correct and I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone in this thread). I'm not arguing that @Yabbie should not attend a Canadian Law School, I am just pointing out that there are alternative options that are available that may benefit them in the end, especially if the end goal is big corporate. But as you and I have both mentioned in previous posts, staying in Canada for Law School will always give you an advantage compared to those who don't and instead choose to write their NCAs when applying to firms. 

I think everyone took my post as I am recommending to choose abroad studies over Canada. @Yabbie asked if someone could justify choosing to go abroad instead of attending TRU. I simply provided some justifications for the UK route by elaborating on my experience--but I am not saying that @Yabbie should pick this route over TRU...just that there are pros and cons to both options with their end goal. Since it appears most people in this thread have heard of the stigma, I thought I would provide my experience as I have PERSONALLY not found that stigma to be true (and this is applying to big corporate firms to medium sized firms in the Toronto and GTA, competing against mainly UofT, Queens, Western, and Osgoode students). 

 

 

Going to TRU, even if the goal is corporate law, is the better option between going to Leicester, or any foreign school that isn't common knowledge reputable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jacq said:

You are 100% correct and I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone in this thread). I'm not arguing that @Yabbie should not attend a Canadian Law School, I am just pointing out that there are alternative options that are available that may benefit them in the end, especially if the end goal is big corporate. But as you and I have both mentioned in previous posts, staying in Canada for Law School will always give you an advantage compared to those who don't and instead choose to write their NCAs when applying to firms. 

I think everyone took my post as I am recommending to choose abroad studies over Canada. @Yabbie asked if someone could justify choosing to go abroad instead of attending TRU. I simply provided some justifications for the UK route by elaborating on my experience--but I am not saying that @Yabbie should pick this route over TRU...just that there are pros and cons to both options with their end goal. Since it appears most people in this thread have heard of the stigma, I thought I would provide my experience as I have PERSONALLY not found that stigma to be true (and this is applying to big corporate firms to medium sized firms in the Toronto and GTA, competing against mainly UofT, Queens, Western, and Osgoode students). 

 

 

But it doesn’t sound like you have a job at a big corporate firm based on what you’ve posted recently...:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...