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TahiaDZ

U Ottawa vs. Windsor Dual JD

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Hey all,

So, I have already provisionally accepted my offer at U Ottawa for the English JD program, but recently got accepted to the dual JD at Windsor...

I've read a variety of posts stating that most people have the "Dual JD is a last option for those who can't get in elsewhere" mindset, but couldn't find any factual information as to why that is. Is it not nice to have the option to practice in both the US and Canada? Or do the opportunities after graduation for the Dual degree not make up for the cost difference?  

I currently live in Canada, and would most likely practice here after my degree, but in the future wouldn't pass an opportunity to move to the US. Any advice/perspectives are appreciated! :) 

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Any Canadian common law JD will give you the ability to write the bar in NY and MA. The dual JD at Windsor is extremely expensive and the U.S. part of the dual ranks in the lowest tier.  Ottawa is a better choice.

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:06 AM, erinl2 said:

Any Canadian common law JD will give you the ability to write the bar in NY and MA. The dual JD at Windsor is extremely expensive and the U.S. part of the dual ranks in the lowest tier.  Ottawa is a better choice.

How hard is it for a Canadian JD to pass the NY or MA bar?

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14 hours ago, Iyaiaey said:

How hard is it for a Canadian JD to pass the NY or MA bar?

Your Detroit mercy degree won't help you pass the bar more than a single Canadian JD will. Not significantly anyway. And certainly not enough to make the debt worth it.

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2 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Your Detroit mercy degree won't help you pass the bar more than a single Canadian JD will. Not significantly anyway. And certainly not enough to make the debt worth it.

I'm not sure why you are mentioning Detroit mercy, I was speaking generally. Is it substantially more difficult for a Canadian JD to pass the bar than an American?

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4 minutes ago, Iyaiaey said:

I'm not sure why you are mentioning Detroit mercy, I was speaking generally. Is it substantially more difficult for a Canadian JD to pass the bar than an American?

This is a thread about the Windsor dual program with Detroit mercy, which is why I said what I said.

Generally, going to a local school to the area you want to practice is best. Finances change that equation such that going through the growing curves of writing a NY bar with a Canadian JD is worth not going into 120k more debt at a not so great American school (even the good ones are often not worth the debt in this scenario).

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Recently, Detroit Mercy has done very well, significantly above the average, re: its graduates passing the Michigan bar, because they have thrown significant resources at raising the bar passage rate. The pass rate is still only 67%. You’d have to see how much the NY bar varies from the MI bar to know if Detroit Mercy is likely to help. The overall first-time pass rate for the NY bar is around 60% - it varies a bit from year to year. I can’t see that they track how Canadians do to know if they do significantly better or worse than that. 

A lot of people take bar prep courses for the US bar exam - I am not sure whether a US law degree does much to help or if you could just get a Canadian degree and then take the Barbri course and study on your own. 

Edited by providence

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Put it this way (and other more senior members feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

Law school is mostly agreed to be the place that teaches you how to learn the law. It teaches you a 30 thousand foot view of the law, but in terms of substantively learning the law it doesn't do much. This differs school to school but generally holds true.

The Bar examines you on the law more substantively. That's why you almost certainly have to study for any bar exam- be it Ontario, BC, Quebec, Nova Scotia, NY, MI, or Cali.

Given what schools do, the marginal help you get by going to the school in that region may very well not be worth the significant added debt that an American law school puts you in.

Edited by pzabbythesecond
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On 4/17/2019 at 11:59 PM, TahiaDZ said:

Hey all,

So, I have already provisionally accepted my offer at U Ottawa for the English JD program, but recently got accepted to the dual JD at Windsor...

I've read a variety of posts stating that most people have the "Dual JD is a last option for those who can't get in elsewhere" mindset, but couldn't find any factual information as to why that is. Is it not nice to have the option to practice in both the US and Canada? Or do the opportunities after graduation for the Dual degree not make up for the cost difference?  

I currently live in Canada, and would most likely practice here after my degree, but in the future wouldn't pass an opportunity to move to the US. Any advice/perspectives are appreciated! :) 

The reason why the dual JD is looked down on is that it has very low entrance stats that are uncompetitive at other schools and it is seen as a cash grab by the school for low performing students desperate to go to law school. The US school the program partners with us very poorly ranked. Also the program oversells the benefit of having a US law degree and the career opportunities it supposedly offers. As pointed out, you do not need to take the dual JD to be able to practice in the US, and the cost is not worth any supposed benefits. 

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15 hours ago, mazzystar said:

Detroit Mercy is ridiculously expensive for such a low-ranked school though. You can apply for a Canadian-US dual degree here after first year and get a dual degree with Washington College of Law in DC/Michigan State which are good T2/3s : https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/programs/combined-programs/canadian-american-dual-jd-program

Both of those are pretty poorly ranked as well.

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