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Legal Aid Cuts In Ontario

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Much better that some unelected idiot in Doug Ford's office draw up the plan, right? 

You entirely missed her point. 

The divide between Ottawa and the rest of the country is a very real thing. I experienced the effects of Ottawa policies on northern communities and it's hilarious how Ill equipped they are to do some of the things they do around the country.

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13 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

You entirely missed her point. 

The divide between Ottawa and the rest of the country is a very real thing. I experienced the effects of Ottawa policies on northern communities and it's hilarious how Ill equipped they are to do some of the things they do around the country.

The divide between Toronto and the rest of the province is similarly real. If you think Toronto is managing northern issues any better than Ontario is, I have a bridge to sell you. 

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1 hour ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I have no issue with the feds paying more for legal aid. I have issue with the provinces cutting already underfunded legal aid to get the feds to do it. Real lives are at stake in this twisted federalist politics.

Literally nobody has said that cutting LAO funding is a good thing, and nobody is arguing in favour of practicing "twisted federalist politics". 

 

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9 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

The divide between Toronto and the rest of the province is similarly real. If you think Toronto is managing northern issues any better than Ontario is, I have a bridge to sell you. 

We're arguing that provinces should manage their own court systems over Ottawa, right? Are you seriously arguing this point by focusing on Ottawa being similarly incompetent to queens park to managing the province's courts? You see where your argument lapses right? 

Literally any provincial government is more in tune with their provinces issues on the ground, including how they administer their courts, than Ottawa. You're focusing on the one example that's not necessarily true, but missing the point that it's because that's the one province Ottawa is in.

Victoria is better at managing BC courts than Ottawa. Edmonton for Alberta. Charlotte town for PEI. Etc. Are you going to argue that point?

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Literally nobody has said that cutting LAO funding is a good thing, and nobody is arguing in favour of practicing "twisted federalist politics". 

 

Ok I'm out.

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Just now, pzabbythesecond said:

We're arguing that provinces should manage their own court systems over Ottawa, right? Are you seriously arguing this point by focusing on Ottawa being similarly incompetent to queens park to managing the province's courts? You see where your argument lapses right? 

Literally any provincial government is more in tune with their provinces issues on the ground, including how they administer their courts, than Ottawa. You're focusing on the one example that's not necessarily true, but missing the point that it's because that's the one province Ottawa is in.

Victoria is better at managing BC courts than Ottawa. Edmonton for Alberta. Charlotte town for PEI. Etc. Are you going to argue that point?

This isn't what we're arguing over. We're arguing over who funds legal aid. We're not even arguing about who administers legal aid, we're arguing about who funds it. 

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6 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

This isn't what we're arguing over. We're arguing over who funds legal aid. We're not even arguing about who administers legal aid, we're arguing about who funds it. 

Those who administer it should have ar least some responsibility of funding it, since they're more aware of the operational needs. I'm not willing to reduce the Ontario government's culpability in deciding to reduce the funding for an essential service that was already underfunded, simply because people say the feds weren't doing their share. Those are separate issues.

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2 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Those who administer it should have ar least some responsibility of funding it, since they're more aware of the operational needs. I'm not willing to reduce the Ontario government's culpability in deciding to reduce the funding for an essential service that was already underfunded, simply because people say the feds weren't doing their share. Those are separate issues.

Again, nobody is saying that the decision to cut LAO funding is defensible. You're fighting a strawman. 

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9 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Why doesn’t the federal government pay for most of legal aid? Two compelling arguments for the federal government establishing a national legal aid program spring to mind:

1. There’s no reason people should have access to more or less legal aid based on the province they live in. A person charged with a crime in Nova Scotia should have the same access to legal aid as someone in BC. 

2. Most of legal aid’s budget goes to addressing federal heads of power, such as immigration and criminal law. 

I’m not defending the cuts, this issue has just made me think about why we have the system we have. 

I'm fighting this, since what it does is shift the attention away from what an awful move this was by the Provincial Government. 


And before you say the two are mutually exclusive, it's like saying it's okay to have a Christian church congregation march about heterosexual marriage two streets over from church street, on Pride. Sure, it's separate. But it splits attention from the main issue.

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19 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

This isn't what we're arguing over. We're arguing over who funds legal aid. We're not even arguing about who administers legal aid, we're arguing about who funds it. 

You can’t fund it properly without understanding where the funding is going. I don’t know any government that hands over cheques to large organizations without questioning/directing how they will spend it.

 

36 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

The divide between Toronto and the rest of the province is similarly real. If you think Toronto is managing northern issues any better than Ontario is, I have a bridge to sell you. 

When you talk about federal funding, this includes all the provinces and not just Ontario. 

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1 minute ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I'm fighting this, since what it does is shift the attention away from what an awful move this was by the Provincial Government. 


And before you say the two are mutually exclusive, it's like saying it's okay to have a Christian church congregation march about heterosexual marriage two streets over from church street, on Pride. Sure, it's separate. But it splits attention from the main issue.

1. No it doesn’t, it posed a question and suggested arguments in favour of an alternate arrangement. If people are incapable of simultaneously (I) disagreeing with a policy decision, and (II) thinking about the overall policy issue in a more complex way than “back to the status quo!” that’s on them, not me. 

2. That is a horrible comparison, and honestly seems a bit offensive. 

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1 minute ago, providence said:

You can’t fund it properly without understanding where the funding is going. I don’t know any government that hands over cheques to large organizations without questioning/directing how they will spend it.

Transfer payments? That’s how much of Canada’s healthcare system is funded. 

3 minutes ago, providence said:

When you talk about federal funding, this includes all the provinces and not just Ontario. 

Yes, but I didn’t feel like practicing the high school geography exercise that would be naming the capitals of each province west of Quebec to make my point. Provinces and the federal government alike suck at addressing Northern / Rural issues because they’re hard, not because there’s something intrinsically wrong with the federal government that is solved instantaneously when they switch over to the provincial government. 

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1 minute ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Transfer payments? That’s how much of Canada’s healthcare system is funded. 

Yes, but I didn’t feel like practicing the high school geography exercise that would be naming the capitals of each province west of Quebec to make my point. Provinces and the federal government alike suck at addressing Northern / Rural issues because they’re hard, not because there’s something intrinsically wrong with the federal government that is solved instantaneously when they switch over to the provincial government. 

The health care system is a bad example, because Ottawa has been offloading more and more responsibility to the provinces saying it is a provincial issue, and often doesn’t pay its share (ie. indigenous healthcare.) 

Some provinces are better than others at those issues. It depends who is in power. As I said, this should be a joint venture. 

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3 minutes ago, providence said:

The health care system is a bad example, because Ottawa has been offloading more and more responsibility to the provinces saying it is a provincial issue, and often doesn’t pay its share (ie. indigenous healthcare.) 

Some provinces are better than others at those issues. It depends who is in power. As I said, this should be a joint venture. 

Its a perfect example of where the federal government funds something it doesn’t administer. The logistics of said funding aren’t important, it’s proof of concept. 

I agree with the joint venture idea – I floated the idea of both levels of government paying for services that touch upon their heads of power. I think that’s a perfect solution. Logistics of how much to fund would still be politically problematic, but I think that it makes far more sense than the current system. 

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11 minutes ago, Trew said:

Imagine how much better this post would have been if Legal Aid Ontario had been established or governed by the Courts of Justice Act (or, you know, if the words “legal aid” appeared once in the statute). Instead, you look silly. 

Hint: LAO was established by the Legal Aid Services Act. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois

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3 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Imagine how much better this post would have been if Legal Aid Ontario had been established or governed by the Courts of Justice Act (or, you know, if the words “legal aid” appeared once in the statute). Instead, you look silly. 

Lol if you're unable to make the connection between Legal Aid and the courts, that's on you.

Edited by Trew
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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what you were going for. 

I don't think you're sure about anything, really.

Edited by Trew
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